Public Safety Committee on Oct. 2nd, 2018

[Bruce Christianson, Director, Occupational Safety Policy and Program, Royal Canadian Mounted Police]

I can answer that question.

Right now our strategy for the opioid crisis is that we do have naloxone available for our members, and it has been used, as well, on members of the public.

Part of our training for our police officers in the use of naloxone is the use of their standard first aid CPR. In instances where an AED would be available, yes, it would help that much more. At this time, as you know, we don't have them in all of our vehicles so we can't rely on that. However, naloxone has been successful in reversing the effects of opioid overdose.

[Sven Spengemann, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Okay.

Mr. Chair, those are my questions.

I think Ms. Damoff has an additional question she wants to ask.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

You have two minutes and 30 seconds.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

A friend of mine went to a marathon down in the United States, and what they did there was that they trained people who were watching the race on how to use an AED. It was a five-minute training in a tent. Then they sent them out on the route and they had AEDs along the route.

Some of the questions indicate that the biggest fear is that people think they're going to kill someone with an AED or they're afraid to use them, when in fact you can't kill someone with an AED.

If you were to put resources into taking five minutes before a hockey game to say how to use an AED, do you not think that would...? Most people won't go, in those community centres, unfortunately, because they don't know how simple the AEDs are.

It would seem to me that a great way to do that is, where the public is gathering, like at a race or at a hockey game, to do that five-minute training to show people that this is all they have to do and they're not going to kill someone. The instructions are there. The people are already there.

Regarding Mr. Picard's question about posting videos, you won't go to a video unless there's a reason to watch it. I'm just wondering what your thoughts are on training people, not in a full-blown three-hour course, but just five or 10 minutes of instruction on AEDs.

[Supt Jamie Solesme]

I'll go back to my comment in regard to it being everybody's responsibility to protect one another. I have not experienced the fear factor when going to events with the AED, and not because I only hang around police officers or medical personnel. I have just not experienced that. If there is that fear, I think that would take it out of it, but in a lot of these places, there's a lot of people there. Normally, like in a restaurant with the Heimlich manoeuvre, somebody in the crowd knows how to use it. I relate it to that.

Public education is valuable, by all means, yes, in those cases, especially going into a Sens game, and it comes up on the screen.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

What's the average response time for RCMP vehicles out in rural areas? I'm just wondering if having an AED would actually help.

[Supt Jamie Solesme]

It varies so much that I don't know if there's a standard set time.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Okay, that's fine.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Ms. Damoff.

Mr. Reid, you have five minutes, please.

[Scott Reid]

Thank you. I think the answer, Pam, is that there's a lot of luck involved.

If a 911 call comes in when a cruiser happens to be going by a house, then they can get there quickly and that vastly increases the chances of saving a life. If the cruiser is a couple of kilometres away and takes a couple of minutes, there's a certain amount of luck of the draw with that.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

I was thinking more with the RCMP.

[Scott Reid]

Right. I'm just saying that's an element.

I wanted to ask, on page 4 of your report you say that, in addressing costs, you undertook a preliminary scope analysis. Would you be able to provide us with that preliminary scope analysis in writing?

[Supt Jamie Solesme]

I can ascertain the availability of it. I think it related to trying to determine how may AEDs were currently in use to find out how far we would have to go.

[Scott Reid]

Can you give that to us? The document you mentioned, can you submit it to us, please, in writing?

[Supt Jamie Solesme]

Yes.

[Scott Reid]

Thank you.

On page 2 of your report you say that the RCMP is committed to your communities, with first aid training for your officers being one demonstrable enhancement. I just wonder, it would cost $8.5 million to equip every one of your cruisers with an AED, and it would save about 300 lives per annum.

Can you think of any other $8.5-million expenditure the RCMP has that has the potential to save that number of lives?

[Supt Jamie Solesme]

I'm not sure I can answer that question.

[Scott Reid]

Right. What I'm asking you is for $8.5 million, is there anything else the RCMP could do with that money that would save 300 lives a year?

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

It's a bit wandering from the actual motion that's in front of us. You're inviting her to speculate.

[Scott Reid]

What I'm really doing is inviting all of us to realize that there is no other way of achieving 300 lives saved per year for a cost of $8.5 million.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

That's a proper comment, not necessarily a proper question.

[Scott Reid]

Fair enough. It is a comment.

Let me go on to the next question.

We're concerned about the extremes of heat and cold that the RCMP might face and this appears to be a reason for slowing things down. I just want to ask about the Medtronic and Zoll devices, which are the most commonly used. They're used in places like California, Arizona and New Mexico. Is it the case that we experience higher temperatures than those jurisdictions?

[Supt Jamie Solesme]

I believe my comment on temperature was in regard to its being a consideration for procurement, not necessarily slowing down any process.

[Scott Reid]

I understand, but while you look at whether to procure them because you're worried about extremes of temperature, people are dying.

With respect to extreme cold, are you aware that heated boxes can be used for AEDs to make sure they're not too cold?

[Supt Jamie Solesme]

No, I'm not.