Public Safety Committee on Oct. 3rd, 2017

[Andrew Lawrence]

In terms of the “source”, in this instance, we would regulate, within regulation, the U.S. Customs and Border Protection; they collect it from the passport upon entry, and within 15 minutes that entry record into the U.S. constitutes an exit from Canada.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

So the passport is a source.

[Andrew Lawrence]

Yes.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

It's one of them. Are there other sources that you can think of?

[Andrew Lawrence]

Well, that's why the first provision is written as “may”, because there are different modalities through which people enter or exit the country. This provision gives the authority to tailor the collection of exit information in a seamless manner, based on the modality, whether it's a private aircraft, whether it's a land border.

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Mr. Arseneault, I would point out that proposed subsection 92(1), in paragraphs (a), (b), and (c), limits the information. It's not the collection of information writ large, it's specifically those things in proposed paragraphs 92(1)(a), (b), and (c) that correspond exactly with what's on page 2 of a passport.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

I want to thank the minister for coming and launching us on our study of Bill C-21.

I will suspend our meeting for a couple of minutes while the minister has an opportunity to leave, and we'll re-empanel shortly.

Again, thank you, Minister.

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

I bring the meeting back to order.

We'll go back to the original order.

Monsieur Picard, seven minutes, s'il vous plaît.

[Michel Picard, Liberal, Montarville, QC]

Thank you.

I thank the agency representatives for joining us.

I have a number of questions.

For clarification purposes, I would like to know whether Bill C-21 applies exclusively to travellers or to goods, as well.

[Martin Bolduc]

The amendments to legislation proposed in Bill C-21 will apply to people and goods.

[Michel Picard, Liberal, Montarville, QC]

Okay.

Currently, a certain number of provisions enable the agency to intervene in the exporting of controlled goods, but are there any other circumstances where it can intervene? We are talking about controlled goods, but does the agency control the outbound movement of other types of goods?

[Martin Bolduc]

At this time, the agency can only intervene in the case of controlled goods. If the shipper does not have the required permit for goods they are exporting, the agency will intervene. We will also intervene if we believe that goods are regulated by our colleagues from Global Affairs Canada because they constitute dual-use goods in strategic exports. The agency is currently operating within that sphere of activity.

[Michel Picard, Liberal, Montarville, QC]

Does that require exporters to make arrangements to systematically declare any outbound goods, to inform the Border Services Agency in advance and thereby avoid any uncontrolled goods exiting?

Exporters may think of doing business with countries where certain relations are not established and where there is no protection in terms of high tech.

Does the exporter have to take additional steps in terms of their export declaration for goods? That would also allow you to talk to the exporter, where appropriate.

[Martin Bolduc]

I will ask my colleagues to answer your question.

[Andrew Lawrence]

Bill C-21 does not change any of the reporting obligations for exported goods. It provides a residual authority that officers can require those goods to be reported in instances where they believe there may be a controlled or regulated item in that shipment.

[Michel Picard, Liberal, Montarville, QC]

Thank you.

We are also talking about avoiding contraband. For the time being, that concerns contraband coming from foreign countries into Canada, but it is now a matter of providing protection to avoid contraband coming from Canada, as well.

However, how can goods that have not yet left Canada be considered as smuggled, be it through concealment or other methods? How can they be considered contraband goods?

[Martin Bolduc]

Mr. Aubertin-Giguère, can you answer this question?

[Sébastien Aubertin-Giguère, Director General, Traveller Program Directorate, Canada Border Services Agency]

For example, stolen automobiles may be shipped abroad in containers. In that case, the new status would allow us to carry out inspections and make requests.

[Michel Picard, Liberal, Montarville, QC]

I assume that the RCMP is also part of the operation and that you are currently not involved in it. Automobile theft is a pretty serious issue.

[Sébastien Aubertin-Giguère]

Yes, exactly. Our authority to ensure exit controls is fairly limited.

[Michel Picard, Liberal, Montarville, QC]

Okay.

When it comes to travellers' environment, there is no physical control like in Europe, such as a counter with a customs officer who checks passports. That's very clear. As I understand it, there is already a procedure that requires passengers to declare to customs if they are leaving the country with $10,000.

How does that procedure currently work?

[Martin Bolduc]

Right now, people can comply with that requirement by coming to the agency before going through security to voluntarily declare the money they are carrying. As I mentioned earlier, Bill C-21 will essentially enable us to exercise the same authority on entry and on exit. The requirement regarding currency control will not change for travellers. If they have more than $10,000 with them, they will still have to declare it, be it when entering or when leaving the country.

[Michel Picard, Liberal, Montarville, QC]

Currently, the U.S. customs periodically transmit information on the entry of travellers to the United States. I assume that only applies to Canadian travellers, unless we are also talking about travellers coming from Canada.

Is there a distinction to be made between receiving information on people who are going through Canada to the United States and obtaining information on Canadians going to the United States. Is there a difference between those two types of passengers?

[Martin Bolduc]

Currently, at the land border, the information exchanged with the Americans concerns foreign nationals, permanent residents and U.S. citizens. Canadian citizens are excluded. Bill C-21 will allow us to share information on Canadian citizens.

In terms of air travel, the information provided to the agency on exit will be reserved for use only by the Canadian government. That information will not be shared with the Americans.