Public Safety Committee on Feb. 27th, 2020

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

I see quorum, so we can begin.

It's our privilege to welcome Minister Blair, for the first time but likely not the last time, to the meeting of the public safety committee.

Before we invite Minister Blair to address the committee, I want to raise an issue with the presentation of the supplementary estimates.

I've now asked about three or four people to correlate or explain the votes requested and the numbers that are being asked of us.

For instance, the amount for the Canada Border Services Agency in vote 1b is $971,827, but the amount for the Canada Border Services Agency in the table of expenditures is $3.4 million. Similarly, with CSIS, it's a vote request of $13 million, and then it's $12 million. It goes on. The only number that correlates with the vote request is that of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police external review committee, which is $639,278 in both instances.

This is sometimes more mysterious than electing a pope. Why estimates are presented this way, I have no idea. However, over the course of the next little while, if those who can explain this would do so, I'd appreciate it. Members, particularly new members—but members generally—are being asked to vote on estimates that don't seem to correlate with the other explanations.

With that caveat, I'm going to call upon Minister Blair to address us with his remarks.

Minister Blair.

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and good morning, honourable members.

I'm very pleased and honoured to have the opportunity to appear before this committee. I had the privilege of coming before you in a previous capacity, when I was the minister for border security and organized crime. Today is my first appearance, as the chair mentioned, in my new capacity as the Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness.

I'm here today principally to present our supplementary estimates (B) for the Public Safety portfolio. To help explain these numbers, I have the tremendous benefit of being joined by some outstanding public servants. I am joined by ADM Monik Beauregard, representing the Deputy Minister of Public Safety Canada this morning; Commissioner Brenda Lucki, the commissioner of the RCMP; John Ossowski, president of the CBSA; Michelle Tessier, who is here representing CSIS director David Vigneault; Anne Kelly, our commissioner of Correctional Services Canada; and last but not least, Jennifer Oades, president of the Parole Board.

Mr. Chair, I am very proud to have been entrusted with the responsibility for this portfolio by the Prime Minister. I feel sometimes as though I've spent my life getting ready for this job. I'm proud of the professionalism and dedication of all the officials, and all of the members they lead, who work so hard to protect the safety and security of Canadians each and every day.

The threats that Canada faces are numerous, complex and always evolving. As a government, we are committed to ensuring that those who work in the Public Safety portfolio have the resources they need to respond swiftly and effectively. These supplementary estimates that we present to you today reflect that commitment. They also reflect a steadfast commitment to keeping Canadians safe while safeguarding their rights and freedoms. The portfolio as a whole is requesting adjustments for this fiscal year resulting in a net increase in authorities of $75.6 million. In my opening remarks today, I will provide a broad overview and highlight some of the key items for the portfolio organizations, starting, if I may, with Public Safety Canada.

The department is estimating a decrease of $48.9 million, or 5.1%, from the authorities that are available to date. The biggest contributing factor is a transfer of $52.9 million from the Public Safety portfolio to the RCMP for the first nations community policing service. These funds are intended to pay for the policing services that are provided by the RCMP in accordance with agreements with Public Safety, the provinces and territories, and first nations. This decrease is offset to some extent by some additional funding for the department.

For example, in these estimates, Public Safety is seeking an additional $3.5 million in funding following one-time federal payments to the City of Toronto and the City of Burnaby, B.C. More specifically, $1.5 million was provided to the City of Toronto this past August. As you may recall, the city was experiencing a very significant surge in gun violence and street gang activity. As a result, one-time funding was provided for immediate support to the Toronto Police Service to combat gun and gang violence and to keep our communities safe. The federal contribution, by the way, was matched by the municipality and by the province, because all three orders of government recognized the urgency and immediacy of the need for help. In September, $2 million was provided to the City of Burnaby to bolster the city's public safety and emergency preparedness capacity. This was specifically in response to the unique situation of being located at the terminus of the Trans Mountain pipeline.

The department also anticipates receiving transfers from other federal organizations, including just over $750,000 from DND for the Anishinabek Police Service to police the former Camp Ipperwash; $300,000 from Canadian Heritage for Canada's anti-racism strategy; and nearly $231,000 from Transport Canada for investments in important search and rescue coordination efforts across the country.

If I may, I'd like to turn to the supplementary estimates of other portfolio organizations. I'll start with the RCMP, which is seeking an increase of $106.5 million, or 2.7%, over authorities to date. Some of the more notable items include a request for additional funding of $27.5 million to help maintain the RCMP's force generation capacity at Depot to maintain 40 troops, and $24.7 million for the contract policing program to address changes to its costs and revenue collection. The RCMP is also anticipating a net increase of nearly $50 million in these estimates from other federal organizations. For example, the transfer related to the first nations community policing service, which I mentioned earlier, accounts for the vast majority of this net increase.

Other notable transfers include almost $789,000 from Public Safety to help the RCMP build law enforcement training capacity to combat the scourge of drug-impaired driving; $400,000 from Transport Canada for policing of the Confederation Bridge in the Northumberland Strait; and $2.2 million from the RCMP to Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada to support the expansion of biometric screening in our immigration system.

If I may now turn to the CBSA, the agency's supplementary estimates reflect an increase of $3.4 million, or one-tenth of a percentage point over the authorities to date. Of that amount, the CBSA is seeking $500,000 to support the new multi-year immigration levels plan for 2019-21. This plan builds on the 2018-20 levels plan and features an increase of 800 protected persons to the 2019 target. As you may recall, Mr. Chair, the Government of Canada committed to welcoming 330,800 immigrants in calendar year 2019. This included 800 vulnerable women and girls from global conflict zones.

The CBSA also requested $500,000 to fulfill its obligations under the Justice for Victims of Corrupt Foreign Officials Act. These funds will support the enforcement of sanctions-related inadmissibility provisions, including operational intelligence and inland enforcement activities.

The CBSA's estimates also reflect a number of transfers to and from other federal organizations, including $2.1 million from IRCC to share the costs of the air carrier support centres, which assist commercial air carriers in determining whether passengers possess the documentation required to travel to Canada; $1.7 million from the RCMP to administer the import requirements under the Firearms Act; $900,000 to Transport Canada to establish the passenger protect program operations centre, which will support the program's centralized screening and the resolution of airline calls from any potential matches; and finally, $800,000 to Global Affairs Canada to help support departmental staff who are located at Canadian missions abroad.

Moving on to the Parole Board of Canada, it's seeking an increase of $1.7 million, or 3.4%, in these estimates. That increase can largely be explained by a request for $1.3 million in additional funding to implement measures related to expedited pardons for simple possession of cannabis. When an application is submitted as complete, the average processing time for a cannabis pardon application is seven days.

Finally, Mr. Chair, estimates for CSIS and the RCMP external review committee are also included in your documents today.

These are just a few of the items in this year’s supplementary estimates (B) for the organizations in my portfolio, Mr. Chair. As you can see, it’s a vast portfolio and it spans all aspects of keeping Canadians safe—from national, cyber and border security to policing and combatting crime and to emergency preparedness and beyond.

I'd like to take the opportunity to express my utmost confidence in the skills and abilities of all employees and members of each of these organizations that make up the portfolio, and in their leadership. I will always do everything I can to ensure they have the tools and resources they need to do their jobs.

With that, let me once again say how pleased I am to have had the opportunity and privilege of making my first appearance before this newly constituted committee. I look forward to the opportunity to work with all of you over the course of this parliamentary session.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. We are now happy to answer the questions of the committee members.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Minister Blair.

I will go back to my earlier remarks. The pluses and minuses between the ultimate request and the amount to be voted on are not publicly available until you referenced it in your speech, and only there partially. I take objection to the way in which the numbers are presented. They're based upon publicly available information that members were able to read up until 8:45 this morning. It's very difficult to follow the bouncing ball, if you will.

I wonder whether you have any chart or summary of the numbers on the votes as to how you get from $971,827 to $3.4 million. I'm sure it's available, and I'm sure it makes sense. I'm sure it adds and subtracts, but there isn't a person at this table who is being asked to vote on these numbers who could actually tell you how that number is arrived at.

I don't want to disrupt the normal flow of questions here, but if between now and when we are asked to vote, you or your officials can march us through the numbers so that the votes we make at the end of today will actually be votes that are understood by the members, I don't think that's an unreasonable request.

With that, I'm going to turn to Mr. Paul-Hus, please, for six minutes.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Hello ladies and gentlemen.

Minister, you mentioned in your speech different amounts of money, but those amounts are quite low. On border services you are talking about $500,000 out of $3.4 million.

When we look at the numbers, there is one amount that is rather interesting and I would like some clarification on that. It is the one where the budget goes from $1.9 billion to $2.4 billion. That is an increase of $500 million. That is not the same thing as $500,000. We are talking about $500 million.

Can you explain the need for that much money?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

As this pertains to the specific details of the CBSA budget, I wonder if you might indulge me in turning to the president of CBSA to provide that explanation.

[John Ossowski, President, Canada Border Services Agency]

Certainly. Thank you, Minister and Mr. Chair.

What we're really talking about here is money that may have appeared in previous estimates and it's finally showing up in these documents. The net amount for the supplementary estimates for us this year is $3.4 million.

To the chair's question, I could provide that clarity. The actual new money, the adjustment—

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Sir, excuse me, I have the floor. You may answer the Chair after if you like.

You are asking for an additional $500 million and you don't want to answer my question. We are trying to determine what this $500 million will be used for.

Along the same lines, when it comes to the border, before the election campaign Quebec was reimbursed $300 million for the 2017 bill. What about 2018 and 2019?

Have you set aside money in your budget or in another department's budget to reimburse Quebec?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

I believe I understand what Monsieur Paul-Hus is asking.

Mr. Chair, there were reimbursements made to the Province of Quebec and to various municipalities in Ontario, and in other places, with respect to an extraordinary cost experience for the provision of services, principally temporary residence, to people who had come to the country as refugees. In Quebec, many of them had crossed the border irregularly. In other parts of the country, it was overwhelmingly people who had entered the country through regular channels and had made a few claims.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Thank you, Minister.

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Those discussions are taking place with the Province of Quebec and a determination is not yet made, but additional payments are not reflected in these estimates.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Thank you, Minister. You don't really know what we're talking about.

As far as the national crisis is concerned, the rail blockades, there is a management problem at the federal and provincial levels and at the first nations reserves when it comes to enforcing the law.

The railway is a critical infrastructure. When we talk about critical infrastructure, we talk about the railway, hydroelectric lines, waterways and ports. We invest billions of dollars in national security, national defence to protect our critical infrastructure. Currently, a few individuals are blocking the entire system.

What do you think the government should do to resolve the situation quickly and immediately? You may say that we need peaceful negotiations, but are there other measures we can take to resolve the situation?

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

I would caution members that we are studying estimates. Humour me, and just tie the question somehow to the estimates.

I'm going to let the question ride, but it does concern me that when we gather officials to talk about budgets, we don't actually end up talking about budgets.

However, the question needs to be answered.

Minister Blair.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Allow me to say, Mr. Chair, that the current crisis is costing the economy hundreds of millions, even billions of dollars. We are talking about money.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

I understand.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Thank you.

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'll try to answer briefly in respect of the time of Mr. Paul-Hus.

There is excellent coordination now taking place. I want to assure this committee and the country that there is coordination between the federal government and the provincial authorities that have jurisdiction and responsibility for the enforcement of law in the places where these disruptions are taking place.

As well, we've been very clear that our expectation is that Canadians will obey the law—that message has been sent clearly—and it is the responsibility of the police of jurisdiction. The nexus to these estimates is that in the jurisdictions where the RCMP provides contract policing services, which are arranged through provincial policing agreements, the additional costs of those things, not in respect of this particular action but in other matters, are reflected in these estimates.

Mr. Chair, I'd also say that we have confidence in the police of jurisdiction to do their jobs. They're doing that, and they're doing that carefully and peaceably to resolve this.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Mr. Motz apparently has one minute.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Minister and team for being here.

There are two parts to my question, Minister. You have promised to ban certain undisclosed firearms at a cost of millions, if not a lot more, hundreds of millions, maybe into the billions of dollars. You've also promised to implement Bill C-71. Your own bill, Bill C-71, which you voted for, would prevent you from arbitrarily classifying firearms. Are you waiting to implement Bill C-71 because you want to use that power to reclassify firearms, something you voted against? That's number one.

Number two, how much is it going to cost to fully compensate the law-abiding Canadians, to ban the firearms that you've classified as military-style assault rifles and handguns...that you plan to give to municipalities? How much money are we talking about for those? Don't you find it kind of convenient for you that you haven't implemented Bill C-71, because then you are allowed to do what you can't do otherwise under that legislation, which is to classify firearms?

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

That's a very important question, but Mr. Motz has not left you any time to answer it.

Ms. Damoff.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Minister, and all of your officials for being with us this morning.

Minister, I know that you recently met with Colten Boushie's family, as did I. Certainly issues of racism and policing were first and foremost in their minds. I have two questions for you. First, you mentioned the investments that we're putting into the anti-racism strategy. I want to ensure that funding will include funding against racism towards indigenous peoples in Canada. It's something that we sort of leave out of the conversation when we're talking about racism in this country.

The second part of that is with regard to policing first nations, community policing. I've heard for probably the last four years that we need to be putting more money into that.

I wonder if you could touch on those for us.

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Thank you very much, Ms. Damoff. Those are very important questions. It is in my mandate letter to ensure that all of our employees and members benefit from training on bias and eliminating bias and racism from all the services that we provide. I think we have a greater responsibility in the country, which is to address hate and racism in all its forms, including anti-indigenous racism.

I will also say just briefly that I did meet with that family. What was also very apparent to me was that we need to be very thoughtful about victim support services very broadly, because the pain of that family was quite apparent in the meeting I had with them.

With respect to first nations policing, I'm actually very proud that within my mandate I have been directed by the Prime Minister to make additional investments and improvements. It's apparent that we need to invest in the first nations policing program. If I may, let me speak to that.

We are currently exploring how best to advance these commitments to ensure that police officers and services all have the necessary tools and resources to do that. These commitments build upon previous investments that we've made of $291 million over five years—which is a commitment we made in 2018—for the first nations policing program to improve officer safety.

Within these estimates—if I may bring it back to the estimates—we're seeking a transfer of $52.9 million that will go to the RCMP from Public Safety Canada for the first nations community policing service. This will pay for police services that are provided by the RCMP, because first nations policing is provided in some jurisdictions by indigenous police services, and in many others by the RCMP.

Through these estimates, we are seeking $167 million for the first nations program overall.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Minister, I know you won't have this number with you, but perhaps Commissioner Lucki could provide us with numbers at a later date of how many people working in those first nations communities are in fact indigenous. I know there has been active outreach to try to recruit more indigenous peoples to join the RCMP. I don't expect you to have that number right now.

The second question I have for you is with regard to unfounded cases. We know that The Globe and Mail did an extensive study on that. Halton Region, where I'm from, had one of the highest numbers of unfounded cases in Canada. We are not serving survivors of sexual assault well by using the policies that have been in place. In some cases, it showed an artificially low number of incidents. I know that there has been a lot of work done within your department, and a new uniform crime reporting survey has been brought in. I'm wondering if you could tell us a little about that, Minister, and about how it will improve the service that survivors of sexual assault receive and also change the way that reporting on sexual assaults is done.

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Thank you very much.

This is a critically important question. No victim of sexual assault should be treated with anything but respect and dignity and compassion. We have seen the impact and the reluctance that many people have of coming forward because they're fearful of how they will be perceived and the experience of the criminal justice system. I can tell you that the RCMP's goal is to strengthen public trust overall in policing, but also to ensure that we encourage and support victims of sexual assault to come forward and report these serious crimes. One of the important parts of preventing them is to make sure that those who engage in such activity are held to account and that we provide good supports for people who have been victimized.

In their December 17 report “The Way Forward: The RCMP’s Sexual Assault Review and Victim Support Action Plan”, which the commissioner presented to us, they outlined concrete steps to, first of all, strengthen police training and awareness, enhance victim support—I spoke about that a little earlier—increase their investigative accountability and improve public education and communication.

In my personal experience, I remember that many years ago an absurd number of sexual assaults were deemed to be unfounded, and it was because if there was not substantive evidence that the assault had occurred, police services were determining them to be unfounded. Quite frankly, that's the wrong measure. If there is overwhelming evidence that it did not occur, then it may be unfounded, but in the vast majority of cases, that evidence doesn't exist. It's absolutely critical that victims of sexual assault be treated, as I said, with respect, with compassion, and provided with the supports. Even if they don't want to pursue a criminal investigation, we still have a responsibility to them, to provide support services, to help them recover from the trauma of their victimization.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

I think that's it.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Ms. Michaud, you have six minutes.