Public Safety Committee on Nov. 18th, 2020

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

We need to ensure that each community can have the police service they would like to see. How do you see this indigenous oversight working?

I agree with you. I was actually quite shocked that the Ontario SIU were investigating Six Nations police, but that's the system that has been set up.

[John Paul]

I think that indigenous oversight would improve the quality of policing fundamentally, because I believe it would build in the element of training, expertise and capacity that will produce better outcomes for a policing service.

The other thing is that the rigidity in certain training of the RCMP or municipal police forces doesn't allow them to fully appreciate and understand indigenous ways of doing things. When they're taught how to understand and to deal with people in that context, the outcomes will be much better when dealing with indigenous people, both on and off reserve. It's a simple thing. Even responding in your own language is a very simple thing for police to do, and—

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Do you think contract policing is working in Atlantic Canada? You acknowledge that in dealing with the issues with the fisheries, the RCMP, while they're a federal police service, report to the province. Do you think that model is working in Atlantic Canada?

[John Paul]

No, it does not work.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

I only have a minute left, and I want to ask the friendship centres a question.

We had Dr. Jeffrey Schiffer testify about a model of policing that the Native Child and Family Services are working on for urban indigenous people. I'm wondering whether you're familiar with any other models,. If we run out of time, perhaps you could send information about them to the committee so that we could use them for evidence.

[Jocelyn Formsma]

Certainly. That's actually something we had to cut out of our opening statement: examples of the types of programs that friendship centres operate within the justice sphere. They include a lot of liaising between police services and community members, and obviously a lot of prevention work and ongoing support.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Could you send the committee the list, or some information on this, so that the analyst has it?

[Jocelyn Formsma]

Yes, we definitely can.

I want to address your complaints mechanisms. I think they're very largely inaccessible, especially within the urban spaces. The people who are experiencing, say, police violence or state-enforced violence are very vulnerable people, and many times they have been very dehumanized. There are many trust factors that affect whether they feel that the process they're engaging with will have the result they desire.

Even the complaints mechanisms that exist are probably very inaccessible and very troubling. I think this is an area in which organizations such as friendship centres can help to guide and monitor those processes.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Unfortunately, we're going to have to leave it there.

Madame Michaud, take one minute, please.

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I will give Mr. Sheppard an opportunity to answer the last question I asked him about what form the more comprehensive training for police officers must take.

[Christopher Sheppard]

Thank you.

This is probably one of the most challenging spaces, because of jurisdiction. If we truly want to deal with training, then we need to start dealing with teaching real history in Canada and dealing with the K-to-12 system and others in this country.

When countless commissions tell you that Canadians do not know indigenous history or facts about our people and what they have experienced, and then you combine that with professional education in your field, such as policing, you will find that you need to restructure a person's learning from long before they get training in police services, for example.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you.

I apologize again, I can't say I take any great joy in interrupting people, especially when they're saying important things.

Mr. Harris, take your final minute, please.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you. I'll give that minute to the native friendship centre group.

In terms of urban policing, is there a role for integrating indigenous people into policing or some separate force? Is that an important thing that we should look into?

[Christopher Sheppard]

I'm going to throw this over to Jocelyn so she can also add to the previous things.

[Jocelyn Formsma]

I will do my best to be concise.

With the systemic and institutional racism in policing, there are two things that I think we really need to reinstate, or instate in general. Those are integrity and the trust from the indigenous community members.That's a responsibility of the police agencies.

We've had a lot of talk around defunding the police, and for us I think that means around front-ending resources such as prevention, housing, human connection, health care, mental health services, interventions by people who are equipped to handle without violence, and community supports, especially around addictions and mental health. I'm sure a lot of police officers will tell you that a lot of their arrests have to do with people who are breaching probation and have addictions and mental health issues, so why are we arresting and incarcerating people who need help as opposed to those who are truly committing a crime? The arrests around—

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Unfortunately, we're going to have to leave it there. I apologize once again. It seems to me that's the main thing I do.

On behalf of the committee, I want to thank Mr. Paul particularly for his flexibility in moving up, and also President Sheppard and Jocelyn Formsma for their contributions. As you can see, the committee is very engaged and very interested in what you have to say. If you have an opportunity to complete any of your remarks and submit them in writing, please feel free to do so.

Colleagues, we've gone from 40 minutes late to 30 minutes late. I'm going to suspend. My anticipation is that we can go to 6:30 p.m.

Is that an appropriate thing to do? I'm looking at Mr. Clerk. Is that a possibility?

[The Clerk of the Committee, Mr. Mark D'Amore]

We'll have to see if the technical team is okay with that.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

We'll get started. We can reasonably anticipate an hour, though.

[The Clerk]

Yes, we can do an hour for sure.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

With that, the meeting is suspended. We will resume as soon as our witnesses are assembled. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you again. We will resume the meeting of the Standing Committee on Public Safety. We're giving each witness six minutes.

First we have Michèle Audette, as an individual, to be followed by Ms. Niemi, who is the executive director of the Center for Research-Action on Race Relations.

Ms. Audette, you have six minutes.

You'll have to take your mike off mute.

[Michèle Audette, As an Individual]

[Witness spoke in Innu and provided the following translation:]

Thanks to the Wendat, Innu, Atikamekw, Malecite and Abenakis nations for welcoming me to this territory.

Good afternoon, everyone. I will speak in French.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Are we getting any translation here? Okay.

[Michèle Audette]

This evening, for the six wonderful minutes I will have with you, I will be accompanied by my granddaughter Waseha, who is from the Atikamekw and Innu nations.

In a few words, I want to thank you for the invitation and thank the nations that welcome me here, on the territory called Quebec.

My words, my feelings and my thoughts will be guided by a process that has been filled with emotion and inspired by women, families, people such as our knowledge keepers and people who had standing when I was a commissioner in a former life. Of course, I will also be guided by my ability to have worn moccasins and travelled across this great country, Canada, and to have received many truths and teachings.

Regardless of the moccasins I have worn or the expertise and mandate I have been given at some point in my life, there have been powerful testimonials in the area of public safety. I will be referring to the role, mandate or understanding of police officers, both male and female, or their institutions towards women, indigenous women and individuals.

Let me start by reading you a quotation from Melanie Morrison, a woman from Kahnawake. It is long but worthwhile: I hope that there is an immediate change in the way the police manage cases involving Indigenous people, both on and off the reserves, so that nothing delays the searches for missing or murdered people. Based on my own experience, there was an obvious disconnect. On the reserve, my sister’s case was not important. Off the reserve, people did not feel engaged. If the local police and the police services off the reserve had communicated with each other, maybe we could have had closure.

Another woman from another province gave us a message. We are all going to be challenged by her testimony. She feels like she has been in survival mode since she was a little girl. She feels on her guard, she feels watched. She needs to watch her back. This is what she says:

Because I've seen my aunties, my cousins, my female cousins brutalized by police. And, growing up as a First Nation woman in this city, in this province, in this country—we're walking with targets on our backs.

This is 2020. We have all heard the striking, moving and unacceptable testimony of one of our Atikamekw sisters, Joyce Echaquan. This time, it is not about the police, but about an institution where she thought she would find well-being and answers, and where she could be taken care of. So we feel that, regardless of the institution, this systemic racism is unfortunately too present.

I will continue quickly because time is precious. I could tell you that many reports and commissions of inquiry have provided you with evidence. These are commissions that you have ordered us to undertake in the democracy that is Canada and in the provinces and territories. Now it is the turn of our elected officials, our members of Parliament, both men and women, and our democratic institutions to honour the calls for justice and action, with all the accompanying recommendations. More than 1,200 recommendations have been made over the past 40 years.

The police have carried out many exercises. They have demonstrated and proven that there are gaps and areas requiring substantial changes. Quebec, as one of Canada's provinces, has a police force: the Sûreté du Québec. It also has indigenous police forces, just like in Ontario, which has many of them.

Everywhere I go, I hear and read that these underfunded organizations are also part of the problem regarding violence against women. The acute lack of funding and resources has long been a problem. The jurisdictional issue between Canada, the provinces and indigenous communities also adds to the complexity.

What action do we take as front-line workers?

So I think we deserve some attention—

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Madame Audette, can you wind up your remarks?