Public Safety Committee on July 25th, 2022

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

You weren't in any of those meetings.

[Rob Stewart]

No.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

Okay.

The RCMP commissioner—and you would agree—had an expectation, as you had said earlier, that the firearms would be disclosed at the press conference.

[Rob Stewart]

You keep saying it that way and that's not what I'm saying.

What I'm saying is that there was an expectation on her part that there would be a full disclosure, and in her mind the guns would be included. That's what that email reveals.

I don't believe it's a result. And I agree with the minister: I was never witness to any commitment or promise made that information would be provided about the guns.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

But you said earlier that you believed that the commissioner believed that she was making a promise.

[Rob Stewart]

It was to be fulsome about the investigation. What that meant is a question you will have to ask her.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

Yes. That's something that we'll definitely be asking.

Were you aware of the April 23 email from the commissioner to the minister's chief of staff saying that the information about the firearms used should not be disseminated beyond the Prime Minister's Office and the minister's office?

[Rob Stewart]

Yes, I was.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

Were you aware of any reason that directive would have changed in the five days following? Was there any discussion about why the minister believed that that should be the case and why that might have changed?

[Rob Stewart]

Not to my knowledge.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

The commissioner appears to have made a complete 180 turn from what she said on April 23, that the information should not be disseminated, as five days later, based on the witness testimonies of Lia Scanlan and Superintendent Campbell, she was quite upset that the information was not revealed, and you're not aware of any conversations that took place in those five days with either you or the minister's office regarding why the decision would have been made to reverse that decision?

[Rob Stewart]

That's correct.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

Mr. Chair, I'll cede the rest of my time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

Thank you very much.

We'll move to Mr. Anandasangaree, who will take us through to the end of this round of questioning.

The floor is yours, sir. You have five minutes starting now.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister. It's good to see you, and my deepest condolences to the families impacted by this tragedy.

Minister, I want to just get on the record a couple of very important facts.

Would you be the first Minister of Public Safety who has had a very long and distinguished career in policing?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

I believe so.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

Could you give us a sense of what you did prior to becoming Minister of Public Safety?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Yes, sir. I was a police officer for 39 years in Toronto, and from 2005 to 2015, I was the chief of police in the city of Toronto.

I also served as the president of the Ontario Association of Chiefs of Police, president of the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police, and a vice-president of the Major Cities Chiefs Association. I also served on the board of the Police Executive Research Forum and on the executive board of the International Association of Chiefs of Police.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

In that context, have you come across the issue of operational independence; and if so, could you give us a sense of how important that is to you as a principle of policing, especially in the context of the democratic space in which we operate in Canada?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Yes, thank you very much.

I think it's a very important principle of policing. As a police chief, I was governed by a police services board, and I think that's a very important relationship in governance. I think police services and police chiefs must be accountable to a governance authority and, in my case, as a police chief, it was my police services board, but there was always a very clear understanding between the police chief and those who governed us as to where that bright line was.

They dealt with issues of policy and issues of directives with respect to certain matters but not with operational matters, and it is a line that I think is a critically important one in Canadian society in how the police operate independently, but in their independence, they are not without accountability. They are accountable, and the RCMP is accountable to the people of Canada through the Government of Canada and the Minister of Public Safety.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

Minister, I want to quote you from back in 2012, and this is with respect to the shooting on Danzig in my community 10 years ago last week, as you're aware. You were quoted as saying the following:

I've been a cop for 35 years, and this is the worst incident of gun violence, in my memory, anywhere in North America. It's very shocking. A lot of innocent people were injured tonight.

In this context, would it be safe to say that the issue of gun violence and guns on our streets was something that you've thought about for many years?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Prior to becoming the chief of police, I was the head of the detective branch involved in very many gun and gang investigations. I had also been responsible for uniform policing in the city for a number of years. When I became the chief, it was what they called the “summer of the gun”.

Dealing with gun violence was a very important part of my mandate, and I did everything in my power to reduce gun violence and to keep the people of my city safe, and, frankly, I brought much of that experience and motivation. If I may, December 2012 was also the Sandy Hook shooting in which 26 people died, 20 of them ages six and seven, and, for me, that was perhaps a moment that forever steeled my resolve to do everything possible to keep our communities safe and ban weapons that were the weapon of choice for people who would commit such terrible atrocities.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

Would it be inaccurate for me to say that, when you sought the nomination in 2014, ran in 2015, again in 2019 and again in 2021, the issue of gun violence was one of the top priorities for you and, given the opportunity, that you would ensure that many guns would be off our streets?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Personally and politically, it is something that motivated me to continue in public service beyond my career in policing and to come to Ottawa. Strengthening gun control and keeping people safe I think is the highest of callings.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

Minister, in conclusion, what do you have to say to this committee when this allegation of political interference is before you?