Public Safety Committee on July 25th, 2022

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Ms. Bergerman and Mr. Leather, thank you for being here. Thank you, Ms. Tessier, for being here.

Ms. Bergerman, you mentioned a meeting that happened the evening before the April 28 press conference and a subsequent meeting with Commissioner Lucki. Did I hear correctly that there was a meeting the night before?

[A/Commr Lee Bergerman]

I'm not aware of a meeting.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

I must have misheard you.

I'm going to ask you a few question in response to Lia Scanlan and Darren Campbell's notes and letter.

Lia Scanlan also mentioned to the MCC in interview that the Prime Minister and Minister Blair were “weighing in on what we could and couldn't say”.

Was that your experience?

[A/Commr Lee Bergerman]

Only on this particular phone call that we had on the 28th, where there was a reference to the minister putting pressure on the commissioner.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

I think you're referencing what Lia Scanlan had also referenced, that the commissioner indicated that Minister Blair pressured her to release this information.

Was that what you heard from Commissioner Lucki as well?

[A/Commr Lee Bergerman]

I heard “minister”. I don't recall hearing “Minister Blair”.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

What did Commissioner Lucki say about the minister: that some minister had pressured her to release the information about the weapons used in the attack?

[A/Commr Lee Bergerman]

Part of the conversation was more that we didn't understand the big picture and that there was pressure from the minister to release the calibre, make and models of the weapons used in the mass casualty shooting.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

So you would agree with Darren Campbell's notes that Commissioner Lucki...the words he used were “promised” Minister Blair and the Prime Minister's Office that that information would be released.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

So you heard the commissioner say she “promised” the minister and the Prime Minister's Office?

[A/Commr Lee Bergerman]

Yes.

[A/Commr Lee Bergerman]

Yes.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Did Commissioner Lucki directly tie that to the forthcoming firearm policy from the Liberal government?

[A/Commr Lee Bergerman]

Yes.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

She did.

She said the pressure was from the minister and the Prime Minister's Office, that she had promised them that information would be released, and the pressure was a result of its being tied to the forthcoming gun policy from the Liberal government.

Is that correct?

[A/Commr Lee Bergerman]

That's correct.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Mr. Leather, can you answer the same questions as well?

[C/Supt Chris Leather]

Yes.

I've had an opportunity to review the notes that Superintendent Campbell also prepared. I have to say, with great detail, he provided a comprehensive and detailed overview, which essentially, to the letter, I would support. Certainly on the points that Ms. Bergerman spoke about, I would agree with the statements made concerning the minister, the Prime Minister's Office and the impending gun legislation.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

With regard to the statement in particular that we just went over—but just to confirm—Darren Campbell said that Commissioner Lucki said to you in the group that she promised Minister Blair and the Prime Minister's Office that the information about the weapons used in the attack would be released. That's what you're referring to.

[C/Supt Chris Leather]

That's what I recall hearing.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

And that that pressure...which was also said, correct?

[C/Supt Chris Leather]

There was pressure. She was under pressure.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

And that was related to the upcoming firearm policy from the Liberal government.

[C/Supt Chris Leather]

Yes, it is.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Were either of you aware that the announcement for that upcoming firearm policy would be May 1?