Public Safety Committee on July 25th, 2022

[Commr Brenda Lucki]

Yes, in the sense that it was any of the weapons involved in the incident. Some were seized and not used and some were used.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

You made a promise to him that this information would be released in the April 28 press conference. Correct?

[Commr Brenda Lucki]

I confirmed, in fact, that they were going to be part of the media event.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

So with regard to Darren Campbell's account of the meeting that you had called following that press conference—again, that meeting happened immediately or within two hours after—where he wrote in his notes that you had made a promise to Minister Blair that this information about the weapons would be released, he was accurate in this, given what you're saying.

[Commr Brenda Lucki]

That's what he wrote, but as I said in my notes, in the context.... The word “promise” that I used was in the context of confirming the answer to his question.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

But you used the word “promise”. Correct? It's a very specific word.

[Commr Brenda Lucki]

I don't recollect that. I may have—I'm not going to question Superintendent Campbell's recollection—but it was in the context of confirming the information that was asked of me.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

You said to the RCMP officials, in that infamous April 28 meeting, that you promised Minister Blair that the information about the weapons would be released, just in sum. Correct?

[Commr Brenda Lucki]

I was referring to the confirmation of the question.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Mr. Campbell also mentioned in his notes, as you're aware, that you tied that to the forthcoming gun policy. Correct?

[Commr Brenda Lucki]

It was when we were speaking of many different flows of information through the last 10 days. There were a lot of issues with the flow of information. The weapons were but one part of my frustration with, and why the meeting was called—

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Commissioner Lucki, did you...? According to Darren Campbell's notes and the letter to you from Ms. Scanlan from a year later, both of them said in their remarks that you tied that promise to the forthcoming Liberal gun policy—or OIC, pardon me.

[Commr Brenda Lucki]

No—

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Is that correct?

[Commr Brenda Lucki]

—what I did recall mentioning was that the reason why the weapons were so important, and why they asked if they were going to be included, was tied to the minister's mandate letter.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

So you did connect the two.

[Commr Brenda Lucki]

Yes, I did.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Okay.

Ms. Scanlan also mentioned that you said in the meeting that there was pressure from Minister Blair on you. Is that correct?

[Commr Brenda Lucki]

No. I don't recall saying that.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

So she is incorrect in what she wrote to you.

[Commr Brenda Lucki]

I cannot tell you if she is incorrect or not. That's her recollection.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

So you did not feel pressure in that meeting when you spoke to Minister Blair and you promised him that you would get that information released about the weapons used.

[Commr Brenda Lucki]

First of all, I didn't promise him. I confirmed the answer to his question. Second of all, in regard to the second part of your question, there was a lot of pressure, and it wasn't just from the minister's office. It was from the various downtown offices. The most pressure was probably from the media. There was a lot of pressure internally to get communications out, because we had lost a member. There was a lot of communications. I was going in front of the media quite a bit.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

So you confirmed to Minister Blair, when he asked you if the weapons information would be released in that press conference, that, yes, it would be. Correct?

[Commr Brenda Lucki]

Yes.