Evidence of meeting #31 for Public Safety and National Security in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was information.
A video is available from Parliament.
2:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Jim Carr
That's refreshing.
Mr. Ellis, I'm sure you do. You have five minutes to ask them. The floor is yours.
2:15 p.m.
Conservative
Stephen Ellis Conservative Cumberland—Colchester, NS
Thank you, sir. I was hoping you'd give me the other two and a half minutes, but I'll take what I get, I guess.
It's interesting information that we've learned here.
I'll start with you, Chief Superintendent Leather.
You are the “criminal investigation head”—for lack of a better description—for us civilians in Nova Scotia. Would you have released this information on the 28th, with respect to the guns and the calibers, etc.?
2:15 p.m.
C/Supt Chris Leather
No, sir. We weren't ready to make that release given the ongoing investigations—particularly stateside—which were in their infancy.
2:15 p.m.
Conservative
Stephen Ellis Conservative Cumberland—Colchester, NS
Ms. Bergerman, you were actually the head of the RCMP for us civilians in Nova Scotia at that time. Would you have released that information?
2:15 p.m.
A/Commr Lee Bergerman
No, I would not have.
2:15 p.m.
Conservative
Stephen Ellis Conservative Cumberland—Colchester, NS
We've heard from testimony—at least written hearsay—that Darren Campbell would not have released that. We know that the SiRT would not have released it.
The question is, how did that information get to people who shouldn't have had it? How did it get to politicians? How did it get in their hands? Do either of you have any idea how it got there?
2:20 p.m.
A/Commr Lee Bergerman
I can only make assumptions, sir. That would be that we shared the information and the inventory list that Chief Superintendent Leather was talking about with the commissioner and that information was passed on to Public Safety.
2:20 p.m.
Conservative
Stephen Ellis Conservative Cumberland—Colchester, NS
Chief Superintendent Leather, would that be your assumption as well, sir?
2:20 p.m.
C/Supt Chris Leather
Yes. I'm aware of the emails that went from the commissioner over to the chief of staff for public safety and the deputy minister. That's the extent of my knowledge with the gun inventory.
2:20 p.m.
Conservative
Stephen Ellis Conservative Cumberland—Colchester, NS
Is it fair to say then that you actively would have said, “Please do not release this information to the politicians” and they got it anyway?
Is that fair, Ms. Bergerman?
2:20 p.m.
A/Commr Lee Bergerman
Yes.
2:20 p.m.
Conservative
Stephen Ellis Conservative Cumberland—Colchester, NS
Chief Superintendent Leather, is that your recollection as well?
2:20 p.m.
C/Supt Chris Leather
My recollection was sharing the caveat that it was to remain within the RCMP and not go any further.
2:20 p.m.
Conservative
Stephen Ellis Conservative Cumberland—Colchester, NS
Got it.
Ms. Tessier, you were communicating with the commissioner of the RCMP. I guess the question is this: Was it you, then, who released this information? Did you have a conversation with the commissioner and say do with it what you will?
2:20 p.m.
Former Director General, National Communication Services, Royal Canadian Mounted Police, As an Individual
I didn't have the information.
2:20 p.m.
Conservative
Stephen Ellis Conservative Cumberland—Colchester, NS
So you, who were the communications director.... Now, you said—correct me if I'm wrong—that you would communicate directly with the commissioner around this style of information. Is that correct?
2:20 p.m.
Former Director General, National Communication Services, Royal Canadian Mounted Police, As an Individual
I would communicate with the commissioner on what was going to be released publicly. I did not have access to any operational.... I don't have operational information. We discuss what we can discuss publicly. I am not briefed, generally speaking, on makes, models and that type of thing.
2:20 p.m.
Conservative
Stephen Ellis Conservative Cumberland—Colchester, NS
So then we have, on one side, the operations people, the criminal investigators, who are saying do not release this information, and then we have a commissioner who took the information and did with it what she wanted. That's what it seems to me.
2:20 p.m.
Conservative
Stephen Ellis Conservative Cumberland—Colchester, NS
Under pressure—of course, yes, under pressure from the politicians; Minister Blair, perhaps.
That being said, Chief Superintendent Leather, I think you talked about a meeting on April 27, perhaps going into April 28. You mentioned Dan Brien, who is another communications person. Was it you, sir, who mentioned that meeting?
2:20 p.m.
C/Supt Chris Leather
I mentioned in my opening remarks that there was communication between Dan Brien and Lia Scanlan and Darren Campbell in the division. However, I did not participate in those meetings. I just became aware that they were occurring in the lead-up to the press conference in terms of the preparation of the speaking points, Dan Brien having been a member of Sharon's staff at the time.
2:20 p.m.
Conservative
Stephen Ellis Conservative Cumberland—Colchester, NS
Right. Thank you, sir.
Mr. Chair, I'd like to cede the rest of my time to Mr. Perkins, please.
2:20 p.m.
Conservative
Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Ms. Bergerman, with regard to the SiRT demand that it stay within the RCMP, did you inform the commissioner or her office that it was not to go out beyond the RCMP?
2:20 p.m.
A/Commr Lee Bergerman
Deputy Commissioner Brennan—and it was discussed as well between Chief Superintendent Leather and me.