Evidence of meeting #68 for Public Safety and National Security in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was commission.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Marco Mendicino Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON
—and the RCMP and CBSA, Ms. Dancho. That's what this legislation touches on, as you know.
Conservative
Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB
Would you like to take the opportunity to explain where people can make complaints about those?
Liberal
Conservative
Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB
If they are being harassed by those Chinese police stations, where can they make those complaints?
Liberal
Marco Mendicino Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON
First, we're here to talk about Bill C-20, as you know, Ms. Dancho.
Naturally, if there are any concerns around the activities of these so-called police stations, we trust our law enforcement institutions to investigate, as they have done in the past and as the RCMP continues to do.
Liberal
Marco Mendicino Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON
They can call any level of police that has jurisdiction where those activities are reportedly being conducted.
Conservative
Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB
Okay. Thank you very much.
Again, I know it's not related to the bill, but I think it's important. I would like to see legislation come forward. I believe that, if you brought forward the foreign agents registry, the RCMP would be further empowered to take action, crack down and make arrests in terms of those illegally operating police stations.
Is that your understanding, as well?
Liberal
Marco Mendicino Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON
I wholeheartedly agree, Ms. Dancho. That's why I recently conducted and concluded a public consultation in which we got a lot of good feedback, including online. We hope to table something that will create this tool for the first time: a foreign agent registry, or what is the foreign influence registry regime—
Liberal
Marco Mendicino Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON
—to further protect our institutions and communities from foreign interference.
Conservative
Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB
Would we see that before summer? Will you be tabling that before summer?
Liberal
Marco Mendicino Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON
We're working around the clock, Ms. Dancho. As soon as we table something, I will share it with you.
Conservative
Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB
Thank you very much. We'll wait with bated breath, Minister.
I have something regarding Bill C-20, specifically.
I recently met with the National Police Federation. I know you likely have too, multiple times. They raised the concern with me that this does not make the commission fully independent from RCMP officers. The police themselves will continue to have to investigate their colleagues when complaints are made.
Why was it not made more independent?
They pointed out to me.... Of course, every province, I believe, has its own version, but the one folks have heard about more often is the Nova Scotia SiRT. When lethal force is used, I believe, or even in some cases when a police officer discharges a firearm, a provincial...a completely independent investigating agency is launched to look into that, so you don't have police officers investigating themselves.
Why was that model not adopted for this? This is a time of change, so I'm wondering why it wasn't.
Liberal
Marco Mendicino Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON
I think that's a fair question, Ms. Dancho.
The best way to answer is this: Don't see internal and external provincial disciplinary processes as being mutually exclusive to the work of the PCRC. The creation of this commission gives Canadians yet another avenue. They can submit complaints to this commission, which will be made up of independent civilian members who will look into the conduct, then make recommendations that could touch on discipline or sanctions. Where sanctions are not imposed, it will require the deputy heads to provide reasons as to why not. We think this commission is compatible with processes set up at other levels of jurisdiction.
Certainly, the example of a provincial police of jurisdiction.... This is not in any way touching on that. This is solely focused on the RCMP and CBSA. That's federal. The processes you described are much more in the vein of provincial jurisdictions.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon
We go now to Mr. Chiang.
Mr. Chiang, please go ahead for five minutes.
Liberal
Paul Chiang Liberal Markham—Unionville, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I would like to thank the minister for coming to our meeting, and thank all the expert witnesses who are here today.
My concern is with my constituents who are often flagged at the border crossing because of their ethnicity. I'm hoping this new bill, Bill C-20, will help alleviate the concerns my constituents have.
Can you talk about the importance of creating a separate statute for the PCRC and how you envision this organization providing an effective review of both the RCMP and the CBSA.
Liberal
Marco Mendicino Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON
I have had many conversations with community leaders, as I said earlier, about their similar concerns about the way in which they have been treated, whether it's at the border or in their communities. This is a direct response to those concerns, specifically where there have been expressions of systemic racism, or conduct that may have been informed by that. We are setting up a separate process that will allow, for example, the commission to compel documents, or information, or notes, or witnesses under subpoena, and that process, we believe, will be a very powerful fact-finding exercise that could then lead to recommendations that touch on both disciplinary proceedings and/or sanctions. We think this is responsive to the concerns that you have expressed.
The only other thing I would point out, Mr. Chiang, is that the mandate of the commission to collect and disaggregate race-based data allows us to take a look at the systemic issue as it exists and to be sure that we are making progress in the right direction. As I mentioned in one of my earlier responses, disaggregated race-based data can inform and modernize training, reduce barriers and do a lot of good towards ensuring that the members of the RCMP and the CBSA are treating Canadians in a way that is equal, fair and respectful.
Liberal
Paul Chiang Liberal Markham—Unionville, ON
Thank you, Minister.
What if any role will the PCRC play in regard to hearing complaints from immigration detainees who are in custody?
Liberal
Marco Mendicino Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON
It's also a very important question. Anyone who interacts with the RCMP or the CBSA, regardless of whether they are in detention, is able to file a complaint, so in the hypothetical that you have posed, yes, a detainee could make a complaint if they believe they were mistreated by a member of the CBSA. That, too, will allow for a fact-finding process, if that is what the commission chooses to embark on, and then the making of recommendations.
Liberal
Paul Chiang Liberal Markham—Unionville, ON
Thank you, Minister.
What role can a third party play in making a complaint to the commission in regard to unlawful detaining?
Liberal
Marco Mendicino Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON
Third parties will play an important role in this new commission, because it is well known that individuals who have been marginalized, or who have been subject to racism in one form or another, may not feel comfortable coming forward. Third parties have the ability to take up their case and their cause and to advance it before the commission in a way that gives them some additional protections. That, too, will hopefully help to mend trust where it has been broken and build the confidence of Canadians going forward.
Third parties will have an important role to play in this new commission as well.
Liberal
Paul Chiang Liberal Markham—Unionville, ON
When you speak about trust, is there any way to have a monitor or independent body oversee what the commission is doing, or is there going to be a review on that?
Liberal
Marco Mendicino Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON
I think that's us, Mr. Chiang. I think we will be able to track the progress of this new commission through its reports, through any additional reporting, which I in my capacity as the Minister of Public Safety may wish to bring to the attention of this committee or Parliament more broadly in its establishment and its work going forward.