Evidence of meeting #14 for Public Safety and National Security in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was c-12.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Jean-Yves Duclos
Thank you, Mr. Weber.
Mr. Caputo, you have the floor for six minutes.
Conservative
Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to our witnesses.
Mr. Sauvé, the government promised 1,000 new border officers at our border. How many of them have been hired?
President, National Police Federation
As far as I know, the money for those 1,000 was approved only last week, so none of those 1,000 have been hired, as far as I know. A multi-year staffing plan...I know Depot is ramping up. They're increasing their capacity for next year in expectation of a greater number of trainees.
Conservative
Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC
Mr. Weber, I put to you the same promise and the same question: How many have been hired?
National President, Customs and Immigration Union
I'll give the same answer—zero thus far, although it's early days.
Conservative
Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC
Yes.
Right now, CBSA, if I'm correct, experiences an attrition rate of about 500 to 600 officers per year. Is that right?
Conservative
Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC
We won't get into it now, but there are some significant concerns about culture and why that number is fairly high.
Now, as I understand it, that promise to hire the 1,000 officers contemplates current levels of training, recruitment and things like that. In other words, if we're going to be hiring to get those 1,000 new officers, the attrition rate, even if CBSA keeps up at its current levels, will essentially allow for no new officers, because the attrition rate offsets the people coming through your training process.
Is that accurate?
National President, Customs and Immigration Union
That's correct. Very few additions would be made, yes.
Conservative
Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC
Okay.
As it stands right now, the government can promise 1,000 officers, but they don't have the training infrastructure to actually get those officers through to get to their 1,000-person target.
Is that accurate?
National President, Customs and Immigration Union
That's correct. Yes, we do need a new training facility or an expansion of our current training facility.
Conservative
Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC
As far as you know, has any budget been allocated for that, or anything like that?
National President, Customs and Immigration Union
As far as I know, no, it has not.
Conservative
Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC
We hear that there are going to be 1,000 new officers. The attrition rate won't allow for it and the training won't allow for it, but somehow they're going to come. Okay.
One thing I have raised with you in the past, I believe, Mr. Weber, is the use of students at airports. Students have three weeks of training. How much training does an officer have?
National President, Customs and Immigration Union
It's an 18-week program at Rigaud, with a one-year apprenticeship.
Conservative
Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC
A student has three weeks of training, and one of those weeks is on the use of force. Is that correct?
National President, Customs and Immigration Union
Yes, I believe that's right.
Conservative
Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC
I'm not going to disparage students. They're doing their best, and it's great experience.
However, in certain airports—Montreal, Vancouver—I don't have the stats in front of me, but students are the primary contact in about 20% of cases.
Is that accurate?
National President, Customs and Immigration Union
I would say that the number might be higher, but yes, there are lots of them.
Conservative
Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC
There is no way to differentiate, generally—unless you have a keen eye and you really know what you're looking for—between a student and a fully trained officer.
Is that accurate?
National President, Customs and Immigration Union
There is no way whatsoever, no.
Conservative
Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC
You have somebody with three weeks' training at our border, deciding whether someone comes in or out, and whether they're a security threat.
Is that accurate?
Conservative
National President, Customs and Immigration Union
Some of our best officers began as students when the program started under the FSWEP program. They worked along with an officer. They were mentored. It was part of a program to enable them to gain experience and see whether this was something they wanted to do as a career. That has morphed into cheap labour, where they work independently. They don't work with anyone anymore.