Public Safety Committee on Nov. 20th, 2025

[Mark Weber]

It's hard to know what you're not seeing when you don't see it. Again, you're lacking the experience. You're lacking the ability to pick up on indicators and have that interaction with travellers, which is really what you want those experienced officers to be there for.

I've seen officers who are much better than I ever was, who are able to identify someone who's here for ill intent with three questions and a look. You watch them work, and you think it's almost magic—they're that good. To get that good, it takes years and years of being able to pick up on indicators, ask the right questions and know what travel patterns are. That's the kind of person you want working at the border, not someone who's working their first job with three weeks of training.

[Chak Au, Conservative, Richmond Centre—Marpole, BC]

However, do you agree that this kind of situation has put our border security at risk?

[Mark Weber]

I think it's lessened our ability to interdict. I think that's fair to say, yes.

[Chak Au, Conservative, Richmond Centre—Marpole, BC]

Okay.

I suppose that your union must have been working to advocate for your members. What kinds of reactions or responses have you received from the government in the past 10 years?

[Mark Weber]

What kinds of reactions or responses have we received from the government? None. We've brought it up with our employer, who doesn't see why students really should have any different work assignment or authority than a full officer has. It's been very difficult to have them see that this is an obvious gap in our security.

[Chak Au, Conservative, Richmond Centre—Marpole, BC]

It's sad to hear that.

In that case, do you agree that Bill C-12 is good on paper only, if there's no further action to really substantiate the whole thing?

[Mark Weber]

Is it good on paper only? No, but that's what a bill is. It gives the broad framework of how something is supposed to look in the long run, but it's in the detail of how it's implemented and where things are allocated.

I would like to be in a position where we, as a union, could provide advice and guidance on exactly what is needed. I think we have the expertise to be able to assist in that.

[Chak Au, Conservative, Richmond Centre—Marpole, BC]

It must be followed up with actions.

[Mark Weber]

Absolutely, yes.

[Chak Au, Conservative, Richmond Centre—Marpole, BC]

Thank you.

My next question is for Mr. Sauvé.

What is the current capacity of the RCMP? Are you at full strength?

[Brian Sauvé]

No, we're not at full strength.

[Chak Au, Conservative, Richmond Centre—Marpole, BC]

What percentage do you have?

[Brian Sauvé]

I think authorized strength from the government puts us at about 21,500 police officers across the country, and we're somewhere around 20,500, give or take. We've been on the upswing over the last two years. The addition of the 1,000 new personnel will put us up to about 22,500, and with the projections for applications, streamlining of training and all that great stuff, we should be able to get there within about four years.

[Chak Au, Conservative, Richmond Centre—Marpole, BC]

Okay.

In that case, will the announcement of the additional 1,000 officers be practically helpful?

[Brian Sauvé]

It's very welcome, because, you know, we've seen attrition in the RCMP actually holding steady or even declining. We have a younger workforce, because the majority of our workforce is junior in service, so they will be around longer. That means that, you know, if you add more people to the fray, you will see a larger workforce for a longer period of time.

[Chak Au, Conservative, Richmond Centre—Marpole, BC]

Okay, so you have two problems. One is that you have to fill up the current capacity, and the other is that you have to hire an additional 1,000 officers. How long will it take?

[Brian Sauvé]

I'm sorry. Do you mean to build up current capacity? As I mentioned earlier, I think we're looking at probably a four-year time plan.

[Chak Au, Conservative, Richmond Centre—Marpole, BC]

What about for the additional 1,000?

[Brian Sauvé]

No, they're included in that.

[Chak Au, Conservative, Richmond Centre—Marpole, BC]

Yes, okay.

[Brian Sauvé]

Yes, the training capacity at Depot is at about 2,100 per year. Right now, they're operating at about 1,200. We've been advocating to increase that. Next year, they're going up to, I believe, 50 troops per year, which would be almost 1,600 per year.

Our attrition is holding steady at about 725, so we will actually be net positive by about 800 per year for the next four years, which gives you 3,200, which puts us at the added 1,000-plus at full strength for today.

That's where I'm cautiously optimistic, waiting to see it in practice. That's the other thing.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

Thank you very much, Mr. Au.

Mr. Ramsay, the floor is yours for five minutes.

[Jacques Ramsay, Liberal, La Prairie—Atateken, QC]

Modernizing lawful access to catch up with other Five Eyes nations in our abilities to fight organized crime and transnational organizations is often cited as a critical tool for law enforcement to enhance public safety. It's been great to hear you speak about the importance of lawful access, and I certainly hope that the members opposite here heard what you said.

Bill C-2 provides law enforcement with the necessary tools to support their operations in complex cases. However, from your members' perspective, does Bill C-12 adequately address the operational needs of frontline officers, or would the provisions of Bill C-2 further complement or even be better suited to resolve those needs?

[Brian Sauvé]

I think both pieces of legislation are a step in the right direction. They set out the framework for future improvements.

As I mentioned in my opening remarks, the removal of lawful access is a challenge, obviously, and probably a disappointment, but from what I understand, it possibly will be dealt with in a future forum down the road. We look forward to seeing that.

Bill C-12, I think, is a great start in intelligence sharing, information sharing and bolstering the co-operation between U.S. law enforcement and Canadian law enforcement, including our colleagues in the CBSA and the Coast Guard, in assisting with intelligence-led policing. I was listening to the previous panel, and Arctic sovereignty and intelligence across the north are fantastic initiatives for our members up in the north, who are going to be there in the future as long as I can foresee. It's definitely a good start in the right direction. It just has to be backed up by action.

[Jacques Ramsay, Liberal, La Prairie—Atateken, QC]

All right.

Mr. Weber, we heard your skepticism regarding the training of 1,000 CBSA officers. You said in your response, “as far as I know”. Given that CBSA management was here last week or the week before and assured us that they would be able to implement this within three or four years, is it fair to say that you've not been made aware of that program, and consequently you may not have all the details or information to actually have an opinion on the training program?