Science and Research Committee on Oct. 3rd, 2022

[Sylvie Lamoureux]

Ten years ago, there were bigger opportunities than today in some francophone and bilingual institutions outside Quebec. People are aware of the challenges since the study done by Acfas really created spaces for discussion within the committees responsible for promotions and tenure.

Researchers who study the francophonie and want to publish in French but do not have the privilege of being in a francophone or bilingual institution have to argue the importance of that research, and of publishing it in French, to scientists in general, and that is a major awareness-raising task. The fact that a publication does not have the same citation index as Nature does not mean that the research published in it lacks credibility or relevance.

I have personally had experiences with the funding bodies that Mr. Perreault referred to. I submitted an application in French and in the comments I received in response, someone went so far as to question whether I had my doctorate! The next year, I translated my application before submitting it, and it was ranked among my committee's best applications. As a Franco-Ontarian, I find it very difficult to accept that situation. The important thing, however, is that I got my grant.

Regarding my choice of publications, because I am a full professor, I don't experience the same stress, but I can be a model. If the importance of research and publishing in French is not promoted among non-francophones, it will be virtually impossible to dispel these fears and creating a feeling of security that will enable a researcher to take on their identity as a francophone researcher or a researcher studying the francophonie.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Thank you, Ms. Lamoureux. I am now going to address another subject with you and Mr. Perreault.

Mention has been made of francophone and anglophone universities, research centres, and grant applications. What I am going to say may be completely off the wall.

Francophones represent two per cent of the population of North America, but there are hundreds of millions of francophones in the world. No one has yet spoken about the international francophonie. Could collaboration and support efforts be undertaken, more broadly, with our French, Swiss, Belgian and African friends? In many African countries French is the common language or the language used for research.

[Sylvie Lamoureux]

People in the international francophonie also belong to international networks. We note the participation of foreign researchers in Acfas and I also travel regularly to Belgium, for example.

The contribution of the Quebec Research Funds and of another association will be making an event about the francophonie and about promoting research possible. I don't recall whether it will be in November or next March. Mr. Perreault probably knows a lot more about that than I do. I will therefore give him the floor.

[Jean-Pierre Perreault]

Mobilizing the international francophonie must absolutely be part of the strategy, yes. That is a way of creating a much larger community that has French as a shared language. In fact, we are very skilled when it comes to collaborating.

As Ms. Lamoureux said, there will very probably be an event in Quebec next April that will be about the production and promotion of research in French. It will be organized by the chief scientist and the Quebec Research Funds.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Ms. Pelletier and Prof. Villeneuve, do you have any comments to add on this subject?

[Anne-José Villeneuve]

I would simply like to add that having a shared language does not necessarily mean that we have a common culture and common concerns. It is really important to get to collaborate within the international francophonie.

However, we must not forget that social, identity and cultural challenges are also important, and we cannot simply let the entire burden fall on the international francophonie. Nor can we forget the duty of the federal government in respect of bilingualism, not only in terms of language, but also...

[The Chair, Liberal, Kirsty Duncan]

I'm sorry to interrupt you, Ms. Villeneuve, but time is up. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Boulerice.

Now, dear colleagues, we will go to the five-minute rounds.

We begin with Ms. Gladu.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I would like to thank all the witnesses for being here this evening.

I want to talk about the situation elsewhere in the world. I understand that in Germany, research studies are done in German. The same is true for France.

How many research studies are produced in French in the world? Is it possible to communicate that information better?

I will start with Ms. Lamoureux.

[Sylvie Lamoureux]

Unfortunately, I do not have any figures to give you.

I was a visiting professor in Germany for six months as part of a Canadian studies program, to raise the visibility of Canadian francophonie in minority language environments. Initially, the program was created with financial support from the government of Quebec.

In India, over 300 universities offer Canadian studies programs, mainly in English. On the other hand, they are also interested in Canadian francophonie. It encourages multilingualism on the part of the students when they know that studies are often published in French.

On the question of the impact of English on publications in other national languages, very important studies done some 15 years ago show that there is strong pressure on state universities in countries that have a different majority language to increase the programs they offer in English and publications in English.

Canada has the good fortune to be part of the international francophonie. French is a language that goes beyond the borders of our country, but the very very big problem of seeing how to disseminate publications in French remains.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Mr. Perreault, do you have any figures to give us or experiences to share?

[Jean-Pierre Perreault]

We do not have figures to give you on that point, unfortunately.

However, I really do want to stress the fact that the convergence toward English is happening in a lot of countries and the difficulties in publishing in a language other than English do not just exist in Canada. There are virtually no more journals published in Italian, in Spanish, in German or in Japanese. The exception is China, because a lot more scientific research is being done there than 25 years ago. Otherwise, a decline can be seen in all languages.

As I said in my opening remarks, what we are calling for is really based on the Helsinki Initiative, which seeks to promote multilingualism in research.

[Anne-José Villeneuve]

Mr. Perreault, do you mind if I add a comment?

I am going to take the example of the Netherlands, where representation is important. If a majority of teaching is done in English, that sends the message to students that research and scientific activity happen in English. That is not the right message to send to Dutch speakers who are studying in English.

In my opinion, it should start at the base. There should be courses in French and in English, professors who are able to teach in both languages, and learning a language other than English should be promoted in the university curriculum. That is where it all starts. Then, at the master's and doctoral levels, and in academic life, we will be able to have this added value.

Otherwise, the message being sent, starting at the bachelor's level, is that French or languages other than English are not important in academic life.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Right. But does the government of Canada have the ability to put rules in place for publications to be produced in both of the country's official languages? Does the government have that power? Would it be a good idea?

[Jean-Pierre Perreault]

The government could certainly do a better job of supporting the journals financially, ensuring that they publish several issues, promoting them, and thus creating a dynamic community in French. I think that is part of the duty of the government of Canada.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Thank you.

[Anne-José Villeneuve]

I would like to add that the government could also offer incentives for courses to be given in both official languages and for professors who are able to teach and supervise students' work in both official languages to do so. At present, when you are a francophone or bilingual student, the burden...

[The Chair, Liberal, Kirsty Duncan]

Professor Villeneuve, I'm sorry.

Time is up.

Thank you, Ms. Gladu.

Now we will go to Chad Collins for five minutes, please.

[Chad Collins, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for appearing this evening.

I want to start with the whole issue of post-secondary institutions in terms of what they're doing. I think we've heard some evidence tonight in terms of what the provinces are doing. In some instances examples have been given outside of the province of Quebec. We've heard some challenges in terms of the universities—and probably the colleges as well—with regard to the granting agencies.

I'm hoping to get recommendations that focus on a strategy where all of those stakeholders address the same issue with a strategy that will address the problems that have been identified by all of the witnesses.

Professor Lamoureux, can I start with you first? What needs to happen in the post-secondary institution area? Of course, that involves the provinces and then, with the federal government, how do we jell all of those together with a strategy that starts to tackle some of the trust issues that have been identified by Mr. Perreault and some of the other issues that the witnesses have raised here this evening?

[Sylvie Lamoureux]

Thank you.

My brain's switching to English for this one. It's not because you asked it in English; it's just jumped that way.

Although the universities are under provincial control, the important funding for research—at least outside of Quebec, because Quebec has the Fonds de recherche du Québec that I'm so envious of—is through the funding agencies, which are under federal control. If there's a way of coupling that with something in the Official Languages Act and perhaps in the languages and education funding that is shared between the provinces and the federal government—which for a long time only addressed elementary and secondary education, but have increasingly added the post-secondary sector—then I think we might have a strategy. Until there is an actual value proposition around research in French and research on la francophonie to guide that, I think it'll be difficult.

What you didn't hear in my last 30 seconds that I couldn't say is that there's a cautionary tale. If we don't have it at the post-secondary level, why then should children register in elementary and secondary schools in French? For me, it's not just a question about science. It's a question of the vitality of the French language communities, particularly in a minority context. The spillover effect is much greater than just publications, because people see this.

Why do I choose to study in French for post-secondary? It's because I hope to be able to apply the language. If we're not fixing that problem, then why am I doing my undergraduate in French or my high school in French? You hear kids say, “I have enough French in grade eight because I know I need to study in English to be successful in neuroscience.”

That is my answer to your question.

[Chad Collins, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Perreault, can I ask you the same question in terms of a strategy? Instead of having the silos that have been identified here this evening in some of the testimony, how do we get a strategy where all of those who have a stake in the issues we're debating come forward with something that actually works?

[Jean-Pierre Perreault]

I would say that my colleague's answer really points to an important element of the solution. There has to be a real commitment throughout the educational program. It was mentioned earlier: French thinks differently and has its own vocabulary, so people need to have access to knowledge in French, regardless of the field. That is an important starting point.

Second, we have to seat all the actors around the table and create the necessary environment. For example, the three granting research councils have to make a commitment to better fund the research being done in French at all levels. There again, this calls for a major commitment, that would support the academic community from one end of the country to the other and make it possible to create this great francophone environment where research could be done in our language, based on the authors' choices.

[Laura Pelletier]

The continuum in education goes from early childhood to the postsecondary level, and research is done primarily in the universities. Supporting that continuum and raising awareness on the part of the various actors, so they will fund projects that are going to contribute to the vitality of the language, is therefore an integrated strategy.

[Anne-José Villeneuve]

I am going to add to my colleagues' remarks and dare to be bold: why not extend the scope of section 23 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms to the postsecondary level? That would be a start.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kirsty Duncan]

Mr. Collins, I'm sorry to say your time is up. Perhaps you might want to ask Professor Villeneuve if she would like to table a response for you.

[Chad Collins, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

I'll do that. Thank you, Madam Chair.