Evidence of meeting #33 for Science and Research in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was vehicles.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid
We will end this panel with MP Noormohamed for three minutes.
Please go ahead.
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
It feels so long ago, but I just want to go back to where we were. I want to go back to this conversation about data, Professor McCuaig-Johnston and Mr. Shipley, and about the concerns Canadians should have about data storage writ large. We've talked about EVs.
Professor, should we be concerned about other smart devices in our homes?
Senior Fellow, University of Ottawa, As an Individual
I would say not as much as EVs.
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
Wouldn't you be concerned about a device in your home that's capturing video 24-7?
Senior Fellow, University of Ottawa, As an Individual
Some people would be. For example, because of the threats that have been made against me, I've had cameras installed outside and inside my home, and I've gone through the trouble of checking. I chose Telus because I was able to verify that the equipment is made in Texas, not in China.
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
You would have been concerned, then, about the deal that Prime Minister Harper signed between Huawei and Telus, which he presided over. You would have been concerned about that.
Senior Fellow, University of Ottawa, As an Individual
I would have been, yes. I was a big advocate of not having Huawei in our 5G.
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
You went to that effort to make sure you did not have Chinese equipment as part of your home surveillance devices. Should Canadians, then, not be concerned about those types of things as well? Whether it's a scale or the Amazon Fire TV Stick my colleague opposite tried to give to the member of Parliament, which you were concerned about earlier, these are all devices made in China that are in our homes, collecting data all the time.
Senior Fellow, University of Ottawa, As an Individual
That's true, but a vehicle moves and can be used as a weapon. When your phone is charging in an electric vehicle, the ones from China download the contents of your phone, even when the car is turned off—that's all of the contents of your phone.
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
That's all vehicles. To be fair, my vehicle not made in China also downloads that information from my phone, but that can happen on the cloud all the time. Does it not?
Senior Fellow, University of Ottawa, As an Individual
Citizen Lab has done a study of Baidu software from China. There's virtually no privacy protection in that. As we know, article 7 of the National Intelligence Law of China requires citizens and organizations to spy on behalf of the Chinese state.
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
The U.S. CLOUD Act gives the U.S. government certain provisions, protections and access to data that is held on U.S. servers. That includes data of Canadian citizens, which is captured on all manner of devices, including, for example, certain devices that may be made in China but which are owned by U.S. companies and powered by U.S. businesses. Does that not also concern you?
Senior Fellow, University of Ottawa, As an Individual
It doesn't as much as China because of the malign intent that China has shown, multiple times, against Canadians, and multiple reports by Citizen Lab have shown the malign intent.
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
This is where I'm confused. You're concerned about EVs but not about the devices we have in our homes that our kids are exposed to every single day.
Senior Fellow, University of Ottawa, As an Individual
I am concerned. I said that I was concerned.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid
The time is up for MP Noormohamed.
With that, this panel comes to an end. I really want to thank all three witnesses for appearing before the committee and for providing their important testimony.
We will suspend the meeting so that the witnesses for the second hour can take their seats.
Thank you for appearing.
The meeting is suspended.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid
I call the meeting back to order. Welcome back, everybody.
I would like to make a few comments for the benefit of the witnesses, as well as the members. Please keep the noise level low. Please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking. For those participating by video conference, click on the microphone icon to activate your mic, and please mute yourself when you're not speaking. For those on Zoom, at the bottom of you screen, you can select the appropriate channel for interpretation: floor, English or French. This is a reminder that all comments should be addressed through the chair.
With that, I would like to welcome our two witnesses for this panel.
We are joined by Dr. Ryan Ahmed, assistant professor, and Moataz Mohamed, associate professor. Both are joining us by video conference.
Welcome to committee. Thanks for appearing. Each of you will have five minutes for your opening remarks, and then we will go to the rounds of questioning.
I will ask Dr. Ahmed to start.
You have five minutes for your opening remarks.
Dr. Ryan Ahmed Assistant Professor, Department of Mechanical Engineering, McMaster University, As an Individual
Chair and honourable members, thank you for the invitation.
My name is Dr. Ryan Ahmed. I'm an assistant professor of mechanical engineering at McMaster University and the deputy director of the Centre for Mechatronics and Hybrid Technologies. My research focuses on artificial intelligence and electric vehicle batteries. I held engineering roles at General Motors, Samsung and Stellantis, working on electric vehicles and autonomous vehicles in both the U.S. and Canada. I'm a professional engineer in Ontario.
I would like to leave the committee with three observations, followed by three recommendations.
The first observation is that the technology gap is widening. There is a growing gap between Chinese and North American EV manufacturers, driven primarily by vertical integration. Chinese firms, such as BYD, manufacture roughly 75% to 80% of their vehicle content in-house, compared to about 40% for Tesla and 20% to 30% for traditional OEMs, like General Motors and Ford.
Having worked on both sides—at Samsung on the supplier side and at GM on the OEM side—I can tell the committee that the tier-one and tier-two suppliers have a built-in limitation. Each supplier protects its own know-how and optimizes its own subsystem, and there is minimal optimization happening at the vehicle level. Without closing that integration gap, a tariff simply protects a shrinking share of the value chain.
The second observation is that Canada has made a generational bet on a softening market. Canada has committed $32 billion to electric vehicles and battery manufacturing, but the market is softening. With EV sales declining and major automakers scaling back programs, we are commissioning world-scale capacity into a softening market. The 49,000-vehicle arrangement with China must be evaluated in that context.
The third observation is that the Canada-China arrangement can be constructive, but only if it's paired with conditions on science, research and domestic value-added. If pre-built Chinese vehicles are sold directly into Canada, they obviously improve affordability, but they add little Canadian engineering or IP. If the agreement is instead tied to joint research with Canadian universities, local critical minerals sourcing and, of course, enforceable data security requirements, the agreement can accelerate rather than displace Canada's EV sector.
My three recommendations are as follows.
The first is to condition quota allocations on a minimum threshold of Canadian-engineered content and critical minerals inputs, such as lithium, nickel and cobalt.
The second is to require that connected vehicle data from imported EVs on Canadian roads be stored, processed and audited under Canadian jurisdiction.
The third is to direct federal research funding to a national battery and vehicle software program that pairs universities, such as McMaster University, Waterloo and the Polytechnique Montréal, with Canadian automakers and suppliers so that the next generation of EV platforms is co-engineered in Canada, not just simply assembled or sold here.
Canada is not behind on minerals, talent or ambition. It is behind on integrated execution. Handled carefully, this agreement is an opportunity to correct that.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I welcome the committee's questions.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid
Thank you, Dr. Ahmed, for your opening remarks.
You might have taught my son, because he's a graduate of mechanical engineering at McMaster University. He graduated in 2023.
I will now go to Mr. Mohamed for five minutes.
Please go ahead.
Dr. Moataz Mohamed Associate Professor, Department of Civil Engineering, McMaster University, As an Individual
Good afternoon, Madam Chair and honourable members of the committee.
My name is Moataz Mohamed. I'm an associate professor in the department of civil engineering at McMaster University and the director of the McMaster Institute for Transportation and Logistics. My research focuses on transportation electrification, including bus transit electrification and personal vehicles. I have been researching how Canadians perceive, evaluate and decide whether to adopt electric vehicles, and what infrastructure and cost conditions shape those decisions.
I have over 54 peer-reviewed publications and my work has appeared in Nature Communications, Nature Scientific Reports and leading transportation journals. My research has been funded by Natural Resources Canada, the Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council of Canada and the Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council of Canada.
I will use my time to present evidence from my research on four interconnected dimensions of electric vehicle adoption in Canada.
The first is the environmental benefits. In a comprehensive, evidence-based review, my team synthesized findings from over 4,700 different studies. We have found that electric vehicle adoption consistently produces a reduction in greenhouse gas emissions and air pollutants relative to conventional internal combustion engines. However, the magnitude of that benefit is directly tied to the emissions intensity of the electricity grid used to charge electric vehicles. Canada's electricity grid is among the cleanest in the world, which places Canada in a very strong position to realize environmental gains.
The second is vehicle utility. Understanding why adoption still lags despite the strong environmental case is a central question that my research addresses. Our data, drawn from a national survey of approximately 20,000 households across every province and territory in Canada, consistently showed that the vast majority of Canadians drive well within the range capability of modern electric vehicles, yet the gap between the perceived and actual utility remains one of the most persistent findings in our work.
The third is the perception and adoption gap. Our research found that attitudes, subjective norms and perceived behavioural control are among the primary determinants of electric vehicle adoption intentions. However, positive adoption intentions do not reliably translate into actual behaviour decisions. We also found that many respondents reported being unaware of charging stations near their homes, yet when we cross-referenced their postal code with actual infrastructure data, charging stations were frequently present nearby.
The fourth is cost sensitivity. Across multiple studies, the purchase price emerges as the single, most consistent barrier for Canadians who have not yet adopted an electric vehicle. Even among those who acknowledge the long-term fuel savings, the upfront costs incessantly outweigh life-cycle cost reasoning in consumer decision-making behaviour. The picture is clearer when the transaction type is considered. Households replacing a primary electric vehicle are more sensitive to battery electric vehicle operating costs, while households that are adding a second vehicle are more sensitive to conventional vehicle operating costs.
The evidence from my research points consistently to a picture in which the environmental case for electric vehicle adoption in Canada is very strong, the practical utility of electric vehicles for Canadian drivers is frequently underestimated and the relationship between the infrastructure and adoption is mediated, in many ways, by perception. However, cost sensitivity at the point of purchase is a significant constraint for Canadians.
The findings point to one overarching conclusion, which is that access to lower-cost electric vehicles will increase adoption, particularly among the segment of the Canadian population that is currently on the margin of a decision. A greater availability of lower-priced electric vehicles in the Canadian market will expand the market incrementally and open the door to a segment of Canadians that current price points have kept out.
Thank you. I look forward to your questions.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid
Thank you, Mr. Mohamed, for your opening remarks.
With that, we will now proceed to our first round of questioning, with six minutes each.
We will begin with MP Mahal.
Please go ahead.
Conservative
Jagsharan Singh Mahal Conservative Edmonton Southeast, AB
[Technical difficulty—Editor] here with us. Either one of you can start. I want to get opinions from both of you.
Canada is currently investing tens of billions of dollars in domestic EV and battery manufacturing to build an industry and secure jobs. At the same time, the government is opening the market to heavily subsidized Chinese EV imports.
Is there a contradiction between those two objectives? What we are missing? Anyone can start.
Go ahead, Mr. Mohamed.
Associate Professor, Department of Civil Engineering, McMaster University, As an Individual
I will gently point out my title. I am Dr. Mohamed.
To answer the question, from an adoption perspective—this is the core of my study and at the core of my findings—the user is mainly concerned not about the supply chain and not about where the vehicle was made, but about the reliability of the vehicle, the predicted maintenance of the vehicle and, most importantly, the purchase price at the point of purchase.
Conservative