Science and Research Committee on April 23rd, 2026

[Margaret McCuaig-Johnston]

My own view is, yes, it would be better to focus on CUSMA, particularly with this section 301 investigation. We should see what we can do to improve CUSMA in order to get as much as we can under some new version of CUSMA. We should set this aside for a year or two years and see if we want to come back to it. That would be my preference.

[Kelly DeRidder, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Thank you so much.

Mr. Shipley, I have one question for you.

Should national security considerations play a larger role in determining which countries Canada partners with in strategic sectors like EVs?

[David Shipley]

Absolutely. We need to take national security more seriously than we are in this country with respect to EVs and all connected cars. I just reinforce the point that the threat from the PRC to Canada is real. Other experts have testified to the abundant evidence of that. The threat posed by every single Internet-connected car—47% of cars on Canada's roads today are Internet-connected—is growing and real.

[Kelly DeRidder, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Thank you to our witnesses for coming today.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you, MP DeRidder.

We'll now go to MP McKelvie for five minutes, please

[Jennifer McKelvie, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

My first question is for Ms. McCuaig-Johnston.

You have a long history in science administration and natural resources energy. Given that we are on the science committee, could you speak to some of those investments we should be making in science and technology, especially in the university sector, that can really help us to amplify our efforts in electric vehicle adoption and electrification?

One thing that would happen through this is that there would be more uptake in electric vehicles. What do we need to do to make sure our Canadian universities are really at the forefront of this technology, and that we're developing that technology here in Canada?

[Margaret McCuaig-Johnston]

We will not get the benefit of technology transfer from electric vehicles just being imported. We probably wouldn't get any, even if we do joint ventures, although we can try. We should be putting a lot more resources into battery technology and other related components, such as the advanced manufacturing technology sector for vehicle manufacturing.

I would like to see the next budget be an innovation budget. It could lay the foundation across all sectors of the economy and also look at bringing in innovation in social policy. If we had an innovation theme for the next budget, that would take advantage of the infrastructure initiatives being built, which I'm 100% behind. It would lay a strong foundation for other R and D across universities. We can always do more in commercialization. This is our one big flaw in our innovation environment. We should be looking at more opportunities for commercialization.

Frankly, I do agree that EVs are the cars of the future, which is why I started the EV technology road map in 2008. We need to maximize the number of companies that can take advantage of that, grow with that and take advantage of the university research that can feed into that process.

[Jennifer McKelvie, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

Thank you.

My next question is for Ms. Doran.

I think you mentioned that 30% of new auto sales are of EVs right now. You anticipate it will be 40% by 2030. Internationally, we're seeing a big uptake. Is it fair to say that this trend of EV adoption is going to continue and there are considerable opportunities that can be seized here?

[Rachel Doran]

Yes, it's our opinion in looking at the global transportation market that the direction towards electrification is pretty undeniable.

Maybe just to speak to the complexity of the issues this committee is trying to address, it's important to realize there are companies like Volvo that have parent companies, such as Geely, that are Chinese. We have, as already mentioned, Teslas that are manufactured in China. General Motors is sourcing CATL batteries from China for Chevy Bolts. Stellantis has taken a stake in Leapmotor.

There are a lot of new partnerships emerging around the world. Because Canada has so many of the critical minerals that will feed into the battery supply chains, it's important for us to think about our opportunities in the auto sector really being much broader than final manufacturing. We should be looking for opportunities along the supply chain where we can insert our innovation and our materials, and ensure that we're getting more value-added along this supply chain. Now is the time to fit into some of those decisions and supply chains that are forming globally.

[Jennifer McKelvie, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

On that, do you have estimates as we transition into EVs of the number of jobs we could look forward to in the areas of critical minerals, supply chains, batteries, vehicles—and I know you're in clean energy, so clean energy too—and infrastructure? Do we know what the opportunity is here?

[Rachel Doran]

We did a study—it dates back to 2022—looking at Canada's EV battery supply chain opportunities at the time. Out of four scenarios, Canada was looking at up to a $50-billion opportunity if it made the right choices. For a while, we actually got so many investments into Canada, the number of Gigafactories, etc., we went above some of our estimates.

Now with pullback from U.S., those figures have changed. Therefore, I would be reluctant to say they are specifically relevant today, but they maybe speak to how quickly the global market is changing and how fast we need to move to seize some of those opportunities. The opportunities are very real, so—

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I am sorry for interrupting, but MP McKelvie's time is up. Could you just quickly wind up?

[Rachel Doran]

That's fine. I'm happy to look at anything I can provide the committee in addition to my remarks.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

With that, we will proceed to MP Blanchette-Joncas for two and a half minutes.

Please go ahead.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski—La Matapédia, QC]

Ms. McCuaig‑Johnston, when a government MP questions the evidence of forced labour, isn't that indicative of a broader inconsistency between Canada's rhetoric on human rights and its recent trade choices?

I am referring in particular to the Prime Minister's efforts to strengthen economic partnerships with certain authoritarian regimes.

[Margaret McCuaig-Johnston]

I think the Prime Minister ultimately made it clear that he recognizes that there's forced labour in China and forced labour, in particular, in certain regions of China. Everyone knows that means Xinjiang.

However, the Chinese have also sent tens of thousands of Uyghurs to other parts of China to work in factories like Nike's and others. It is really implicating western companies in the forced labour, just as it would implicate Canadians if we buy electric vehicles that we know, pretty confidently, have forced labour in the aluminum in the cars. It implicates us, personally, in that. I think it would be really regrettable if we had those driving around our streets everywhere.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski—La Matapédia, QC]

Ms. McCuaig‑Johnston, my question is much more specific.

In your view, do the Government of Canada's commercial interests take precedence over the principles it claims to uphold?

[Margaret McCuaig-Johnston]

The government, at this time, is trying its best to diversify our trade to other countries in the world. I support that, but I don't think this should come at the expense of human rights, and I don't think it needs to. We can make choices that reflect our values as Canadians.

The Prime Minister and ministers have gone abroad and said that we have a values-based, pragmatic foreign policy. What countries like China hear when we say “values-based, pragmatic foreign policy” is the word “pragmatic”, and they think we'll just roll over whenever they tell us that they want us to do something. It seems that we may, from time to time, be doing that.

Personally, as somebody who's focused her career on public policy, I think that's terrible and not necessary. I think we can have our values—

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you. The time is up for MP Blanchette-Joncas.

Now, we will have three minutes for MP Ho and three minutes for MP Noormohamed, and then we will end this panel. I want to keep some time at the end of the second panel for scheduling purposes.

Go ahead, MP Ho.

[Vincent Ho, Conservative, Richmond Hill South, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Ms. McCuaig-Johnston, you've warned that Chinese-made EVs have the ability to surveil Canadians through software. Earlier this month, I asked Canada's Privacy Commissioner if he was ever consulted by the Liberal government on the subject of Chinese- or foreign-made EVs. He said that his department was never consulted.

Given those risks, do you believe the Liberal government showed a lack of judgment by allowing Chinese-made EVs into the Canadian market without clear safeguards?

[Margaret McCuaig-Johnston]

I believe that there should have been wide consultation on this. We're seeing the result now that there hasn't been. We're trying to ring-fence some of these risks. When you talk about privacy and data, that's a big risk.

EVs driving onto military bases is another risk. Poland and Israel have banned it. Several people at this meeting have talked about components. The U.K. has banned any vehicle that has components from China from going onto military bases. It's not just Chinese EVs, but components in any other type of car.

I would include not just military bases, but CSIS, CSE, Global Affairs Canada and some other departments.

[Vincent Ho, Conservative, Richmond Hill South, ON]

Mr. Shipley, you've warned that connected vehicles may function like rolling surveillance platforms. We've seen countries like Poland, the U.S. and Israel place restrictions on the use and import of Chinese-made EVs. Many other countries are now following suit.

What kinds of personal data could Chinese-made EVs potentially collect, transmit or expose without the driver realizing it? Did the Liberal government fail to understand these risks?

[David Shipley]

In my submission, you can see an example of a Tesla, which was parked in someone's garage and had its cameras on 24-7. That individual actually walked unclothed in front of the camera and it was captured, and that video was traded among employees for a laugh. We've already seen real examples of the rolling cameras, the microphones inside, the geolocation data and other things. They are a data collection platform.

I want to reinforce that China's nation-state hacking teams will hack Ford, GM, Tesla and others as well if they are not in there now doing the same thing because it makes sense to gather this kind of data. If we don't secure all connected cars, closing the door on China does not close China's hacking team out.

[Vincent Ho, Conservative, Richmond Hill South, ON]

Thank you.

I'll use my last 15 seconds to bring up potentially extending—

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Your time is up.