Status of Women Committee on Oct. 8th, 2009

[Martin Green]

I don't know the nuance of it, but I do know there have been significant improvements within the federal public service in terms of the senior management roles and women taking them. There's been a great increase, and I think it's been pretty well documented. Gaps still exist, but it's been remarkable.

[France Bonsant, Bloc, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Could you provide us with some kind of percentage of women who have a more senior position than a man?

[Martin Green]

I don't have it with me, but I can certainly get it to the researcher and share it with the committee. I believe Treasury Board and the Public Service Commission have kept those pretty carefully.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

It's almost 50%. It's very good.

Thank you, France.

Irene.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I wanted to come back to the discussion about pay equity. You referenced pay equity. How does the remuneration in male-dominated trades compare to remuneration in female-dominated trades? Have there been investigations in that regard?

[Christel Le Petit]

It's the same answer. We will have to get you the numbers for that.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Is there a regional variation in the participation of women in the trades and apprenticeship programs?

[Christel Le Petit]

We're going to provide you with that as well.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Okay.

And has there been any attempt to look at the social and economic implications of women not participating in apprenticeship and training? I would think if women are shut out or if women feel they can't access it or they're not accessing it, for whatever reason—lack of child care, lack of support—that could have a profound impact on a region or a town or a community. Any thought about that in terms of looking at it or studying it?

[Tracey Leesti]

I'm not aware of any studies that have been done. Those would probably be fairly small statistics. I know Kathryn mentioned a program that looked at some of the reasons around it, but I suspect that was at the national level. To try to get it down to such a small geographic detail would be fairly difficult.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

StatsCan just needs more money and that's all there is to it.

I'm quite interested. There was mention made of the increase in the number of women attaining university education, and in fact degrees. I believe more women than ever are enrolling in universities, yet when you look at the reality of who is doing the teaching—who the academics and the professors are—there seem to be far more men than women. Has there been any investigation of that in terms of the reasons, or just gathering information about the reality of that?

[Tracey Leesti]

For the survey we work on we don't have the reasons why, and off the top of my head, I can't think of a survey that might have the reasons why they go into the teaching profession. We could gather a little bit more information around the statistics or the numbers, a breakdown of males and females in the educational profession.

[Kathryn McMullen]

If I could add to that, it will differ by level of education. We see in the graduation statistics that women far outnumber men and have increased their share of graduates in education. You would have to look at that at the elementary, secondary, and post-secondary levels. You see a gradient, with primary school teachers primarily being women. There may have been some changes at the secondary school level. We can't separate elementary and secondary in our statistics; we collect them together. Then you get to the post-secondary level. You see those proportions change as you move up the educational hierarchy.

[Christel Le Petit]

I'm not sure if I understood your point correctly, but tell me if I'm wrong. I have some numbers, like the share of women university professors. In 2006 it was 46%, and that's a 7% increase compared to 10 years earlier.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

So 46% of those teaching in universities and colleges are women.

[Christel Le Petit]

And assistants. They're females; that's right.

For colleges and other vocational schools, the proportion of females is 53%, and that's an increase of only 1%. And for secondary and elementary school teachers, it's 74%.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Yes, I know that in the secondary panel it is switched, where men....

[Christel Le Petit]

It's the reverse issue, with not enough males.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You have one minute, Irene.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Finally, a number of years ago there was a great whoop-de-do about female firefighters, and it was about how on earth they could be bulky enough to drag someone from the flames. We found, in looking at their training, that before they could even proceed they had to be physically able to do all that men could do. So it became a really spurious debate—very acrimonious, but spurious nonetheless.

I wonder if you have stats on female police officers, firefighters, and women in the armed forces, because those are most certainly non-traditional jobs.

[Christel Le Petit]

I have to find them.

[Tracey Leesti]

We can send them to you, though, if we run out of time before your 30 seconds are up.

[Christel Le Petit]

I have the firefighter statistics right here.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

It's page 6 if the Stats Canada document.