Status of Women Committee on Oct. 8th, 2009

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Order.

Ms. Hoeppner, Madame Demers has the floor. She made a comment. If you want 30 seconds with which to respond to it, I'll allow that and then we must move on.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

I think this is a very important issue for all of us. Talking about putting individuals in jail who are committing crimes and making them stay in jail is part of the equation for protecting women. Unless we talk about that and make it part of this discussion, our motives will be in question. I apologize to Ms. Demers for offending her. That was not my intent at all. I think we have to talk about this and talk about the facts.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Ms. Hoeppner.

We will hear from Ms. Zarac and Ms. Mathyssen. We will not finish this if we don't. We'll put it off till next week again. If the committee believes that this is important enough to take on to the next meeting, I will bow to the will of the committee. We're chasing the clock here. Unless someone has something that adds something new to the discussion, we may need to go to Ms. McLeod's amendment so that we can have a vote.

Ms. Zarac.

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

I would like to echo what Ms. Demers said. If this committee is truly serious, before sending people to jail, we will have to take steps to protect these women, to defend them and to find the guilty parties. We must take the first step, and we are having trouble taking it today. We must come together and, as Ms. Demers is proposing, take the steps necessary to protect these women and find those who are guilty.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

Ms. Mathyssen.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

This business of putting people in jail is rather simplistic. The reports talk about how you protect women, in this case first nations women. The purpose is to reduce their vulnerability to make sure they're not at risk of violence, that they're not living in poverty, that they have housing and education, safe houses, and that they're not incarcerated at a rate well above the white population. That's what these reports are about. That's what we want action on.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Excuse me, Mr. Harris, a committee member is speaking at the moment, please.

[Dick Harris, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Sorry, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

If you wish to share what you're saying with us, we'd be glad to give you a moment.

Sorry, Ms. Mathyssen, what were you saying?

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Well, I'm finished. These reports are about how we address the vulnerability of aboriginal women. I've made a list. That's where the action needs to be. Everything else is a side show.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Ms. Mathyssen.

France, you had something new to add, and then Ms. McLeod will round it out before we call the question, because it's her amendment.

Yes?

[France Bonsant, Bloc, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

In one sense, I am just passing through. However, before trying to put murderers in jail, we have to educate women and find out where they are most vulnerable, how they were abducted, etc.

As far as potentially jailing these people, Ms. Hoeppner, that comes under the Department of Justice. I am not a lawyer and I do not know if you are either, but I do know that that is another political debate.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

Now Ms. McLeod, and then I'm going to call the question on this.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Madam Chair, I would still like to ask that we have support for the amendment. We have heard our minister respond in the House that they are working very, very hard. I would anticipate with Sisters In Spirit that when they do the report, I think we have to respect the folks who are working very hard on this issue within that organization, and look towards how they respond back, because I believe those are the people who are working very hard, who will perhaps have some of the best answers for us.

So I ask you to support my amendment, please.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

I would like to just quickly reiterate what the amendment is to everyone here.

After “after 30 years in Canada”, the words are added:

Since the government is already scheduled to report to the United Nations...the report shall also be submitted to the Standing Committee on the Status of Women, and that NGOs such as Amnesty International have access to the said report.

And I understand, Madame Demers, that you would accept the friendly amendment to change “follow-up” to “take action”? Was that clear?

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

No, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

No, you want “follow-up” to remain.

Madame Demers, Ms. Mathyssen had said to say “take action” instead of “follow-up”.

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

That is what I prefer.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You prefer “take action”? “Take action” or “follow-up”?

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

“Take action”.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

Let's see the amendment first, as presented by Ms. McLeod.

Those in favour of the amendment?

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Which amendment? We have two now.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

No. There is no amendment to vote on. Ms. Demers has accepted the change to the words “call on the government to follow-up”. She's accepted a friendly amendment of “to take action”. So the word is now “to take action on the reports”.

Now we have the addendum by Madam McLeod. So we're voting on Madam McLeod's addition.

I guess I will have to break this tie, and I always like to explain how I vote and why.

From listening to the debate, I heard Ms. Demers and people on one side suggest that they want action to be taken based on the recommendations out of Amnesty International and the CIDA report, and that those are clear recommendations. So this is a specific thing they're asking for.

Ms. McLeod asked for the government to report, when it finishes its report to the United Nations, and to share that report with the House and with the Standing Committee on the Status of Women and with NGOs such as Amnesty International.

I agree that in fact those are two different suggestions. I would like to vote against the amendment and ask Ms. McLeod to bring her amendment as a motion we can deal with separately.

It's a totally different thing she's asking for. This is not about the government reporting; it is about the government acting on the reports of others to take action to do things.

So I will vote against the amendment.

(Amendment negatived)

So the motion will now stand:

That the Committee call on the government to take action on the reports of both Amnesty International and the United Nations regarding the hundreds of aboriginal women who have disappeared or have been killed over the past 30 years in Canada and that the Committee report this motion to the House as soon as possible.

Lucky me again. I vote with the motion.

(Motion agreed to)

Would you like to bring your amendment as a separate motion, Madam McLeod, which could start with, “The government is already scheduled...”, without the “whereas”?

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Madam Chair, I think at this point it feels like we need to let some emotions ease. Maybe we can discuss this next week.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you. That's very generous of you, Ms. McLeod.

The meeting is adjourned.