Evidence of meeting #6 for Status of Women in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was industry.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:40 p.m.
Community Outreach Coordinator, Educational Resource Centre, Women in Resource Development Corporation
I have no knowledge about that.
4:40 p.m.
President, Canadian Construction Women
I have no knowledge about it either.
4:40 p.m.
NDP
Irene Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON
I wondered, because I recall that at one time it was rather difficult to be taken seriously as a businessperson when you were starting up.
We've seen a rise in the number of businesses that have implemented pay equity, affirmative action strategies, or parental leave. Child care was also mentioned.
Last week we heard from a group of presenters that the federal government needs to be much more proactive. The suggestion was made that the federal government, in awarding contracts, could look at model employers--employers who implemented proactive workplace strategies.
Do you think that's a good idea? Do the feds need to encourage these model employers? Do they need to be more active in supporting businesses that encourage and promote women?
4:40 p.m.
Industry and Community Liaison, Women in Resource Development Corporation
Perhaps I could answer that question. Just to give a comparison to our local industry rather than our local government...I guess we could use our local government's requirement as an example. Basically in the tendering process and in the contract awarding process for operating companies on large-scale projects, they do need to take gender equity initiatives and policies and programs into account when awarding contracts to contracting companies.
We have found this to be very effective in that many contracting companies now have gender equity plans, which don't necessarily have quotas in terms of targets, nor have they necessarily been firm; however, they do have criteria for supporting programs such as the ones we run in encouraging young girls and providing information to young girls and women about opportunities in non-traditional occupations and opportunities in their companies.
It has certainly been successful on that level, and I do not see why it wouldn't be successful for the federal government as well. So I do think that is one way for the government to be proactive.
4:45 p.m.
NDP
Irene Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON
Is it fair to say that we are seeing examples of pay equity in these particular situations?
4:45 p.m.
Industry and Community Liaison, Women in Resource Development Corporation
Pay equity is not necessarily a criterion that I often see in non-federal government equity plans. It is, more so, criteria around increasing the participation of women in these fields against retraining, increased access to that training, and through inclusive language in job advertisement--criteria of that sort.
I have not necessarily seen pay equity criteria in these plans. However, I do think that is extremely important, and it would of course be for the federal government as well.
4:45 p.m.
NDP
Irene Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON
Do you think it would attract more women if they knew they were going to get this equal pay for work of equal value to which they're entitled?
4:45 p.m.
Industry and Community Liaison, Women in Resource Development Corporation
Most definitely. If women are working to the same calibre as men, if they are trained and qualified to be in that position, there is no reason why they should be receiving less pay for similar work. So I am definitely on board with pay equity requirements and policies in place at all levels.
4:45 p.m.
NDP
Irene Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON
Ms. Turner, in your presentation you spoke about some of the programs and services that were available in Newfoundland and Labrador, and you made reference to GBA in terms of best practices. Could you describe that? I would like to have a sense of what that looks like.
4:45 p.m.
Industry and Community Liaison, Women in Resource Development Corporation
Certainly. Right now in our organization we have a researcher on staff whose job it is to actually focus on researching best practices. She's in the process of putting together a best practices report in terms of recruitment and retention of women, which will be shared with industry and any other stakeholders who are interested.
It will basically talk about, as I said, focused recruitment and focused retention, on women in particular, without polarizing them from men but ensuring that they have equal opportunity to men and ensuring that they have a welcoming environment in the recruitment and retention process in non-traditional occupations.
That is something that is still a work in progress. However, it will contain recommendations and exemplary practices that have taken place, both here in Newfoundland and Labrador and at the national and international levels.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
Thank you very much, Ms. Turner and Ms. Mathyssen.
Now we have Madame Boucher and Ms. McLeod, who will share their five minutes.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Sylvie Boucher Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC
I will give Ms. Wong a minute since she has some information to share. Then, I will take the floor.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Alice Wong Conservative Richmond, BC
I just want to let Rebecca know that the federal government project called Women's Enterprise Society of B.C., as well as the community futures program, does exactly what Ms. Mathyssen just mentioned. They provide small loans, as well as training programs, for women entrepreneurs. They give them the training first, and then they help them to get the funding and to get business plans done.
Have you heard about that, Ms. McDiarmid?
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Alice Wong Conservative Richmond, BC
If you need the information, we can pass it along to your association.
About pay equity, in the area of construction, the pay actually depends very much on the seniority or the skills, rather than on where, if you're both at an entry level, if you're a man you're making more and if you're a woman you're making less. Is that the situation, or does the pay equity issue depend on the entry level?
4:50 p.m.
President, Canadian Construction Women
I heard an interesting story once--and I'll try to make it quick--about three people who were working for the pay equity commission. There were two women and a man. When the initial job offers were made, they said, “We can pay you $40,000 a year. That's as high as we can go. Do you want the job, or do you not want the job?” After six months, the three individuals were standing around talking. It turns out that the two women had accepted the job for $40,000 a year, but the man had told the person on the other end of the line, “No, I'm going to hold out for $50,000.” So he was getting paid $50,000 a year at the pay equity commission, where the two women were being paid less.
Obviously the situation was rectified after it came to light, but it goes to show you that it's about negotiation. It's about setting your own standards and what you're willing to accept when you first enter into that market segment. So while it probably happens—
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
I'm sorry, Ms. McDiarmid. I just want Ms. McLeod and Ms. Boucher to know that they now only have two minutes left between them.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Sylvie Boucher Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC
I have a question. What you are saying is very interesting.
The meaning of non-traditional occupations can change depending on the location. Some of you said earlier that, when you visit schools to recruit candidates for employment, you do not do so by talking right away about gender in the trade. You introduce yourselves as workers in construction or in industry. You prefer to do it that way.
In the media or in construction advertisements, we often notice that it is men who are represented. So we must also change the image we have of women who enter those traditional trades.
What do you do to make girls and women understand that, when they choose a non-traditional occupation, first, it is gratifying and, second, it builds self-confidence? How do you sell them on the idea that women can enter those non-traditional occupations?
4:50 p.m.
President, Canadian Construction Women
By being a successful woman in that trade, you are demonstrating beyond the shadow of a doubt that it is possible. You can maintain your identity as you wish to present that, but you're not a woman working in construction; you're a person working in construction. You're trying to reach the guys as much as you're trying to reach the girls.
4:50 p.m.
Community Outreach Coordinator, Educational Resource Centre, Women in Resource Development Corporation
Sometimes the way we do it is to let the girls actually try the trade. One of our programs is called Girls Exploring Trades and Technology, in which they build a go-cart. The girls do that camp, but then the boys in the class see it. They talk about it, and it opens up a whole new dialogue as to what girls can do and what boys can do. That's the way in which we try to change the stereotype there as well.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
I'm sorry, that's the five minutes. We do not have time for a third round, because we need to go in camera and there is a vote.
I want to thank Ms. McDiarmid, Ms. Turner, and Ms. Clarke for their presentations. It was very helpful and very interesting to see the regional differences in how things are happening across the country. I want to thank you again for helping us to form a report on this issue.
We're going to suspend to go in camera.
[Proceedings continue in camera]