Evidence of meeting #72 for Status of Women in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was home.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:30 p.m.
NDP
The Chair NDP Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe
We now move to another question period.
Ms. Bennett, the floor is yours.
12:30 p.m.
Liberal
Carolyn Bennett Liberal St. Paul's, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you very much for your story. It is only through the stories that we can understand really the complexity of what you've been facing and what everybody can see is not fair. Fairness is what Canadians expect from us, but as you know, some of the advocacy organizations are concerned that even Wendy Grant-John, when she wrote the original report, felt that the non-legislative things needed to be in place.
Tell us what it would look like if you had been fully supported during this time, in terms of access to justice and choices. As parliamentarians, what kinds of things should we be advocating for that would mean that whatever law gets passed women in your situation in the future would be able to use it fairly?
12:30 p.m.
As an Individual
Maybe there should be some enhancements with police services. When I called the police to see if they could have him removed from the house so that my son and I could move back in, they indicated that the house title was in both our names. He had a right to be there and so did I. I didn't want to go back to being physically assaulted just to get the house. I was still very fearful, and I am still. Maybe those protection orders in the legislation can help out with that.
Other services could include outreach. No one talks. When you're humiliated like that, no one talks directly to you about it.
12:35 p.m.
Liberal
Carolyn Bennett Liberal St. Paul's, ON
Jennifer, you talked about the difficulty in getting appropriate legal help and that there's sometimes a conflict. Tell us a little more about that, about access to legal help.
12:35 p.m.
As an Individual
When I went to court, the judge did want to help us. He said he would help if he could, but he couldn't. He said his hands were tied. He said the only thing he could do was to give me the right to occupy the home. That's all he could do. I said I was under the impression that our leaders told me to go there to get the home given to us by him. I didn't know anything at the time. He said he was sorry, but he couldn't do anything because the house was situated on crown land. He said if my ex-fiancé was staying in the house, all I had to do was show him the paper; go to the RCMP and give the RCMP the paper. He'd be given two weeks to vacate the home, if he was staying in the home, but he never stayed in the home for nine years. When we were gone, he moved out. He moved to his mom's. As soon as we left, he left.
I never had that problem, but we weren't ever able to go back there. There were private property signs put all over the house and big logs put across the driveway. We weren't even able to go in there and get anything after we were kicked out. We weren't able to go in even with a police escort. We weren't allowed to do that because it was their land.
12:35 p.m.
Liberal
Carolyn Bennett Liberal St. Paul's, ON
We hear from women that sometimes even with an emergency protection order it doesn't feel safe. The policing or the actual protection 24/7 isn't really possible, and if somebody wants to come, particularly in situations of abuse, it's pretty difficult in these kinds of remote communities.
What would be the answer? How do we grapple with how we make things better?
12:35 p.m.
As an Individual
Physical safety is one thing, but when you deal with the emotional and mental issues, and the safety, it's just like.... Even though there was a sense of ceremony, family, and helping people in the community coming for help, and those sorts of things, when I was kicked out I didn't have that to fall on; those supports were gone. I just didn't feel safe to go back.
I don't know what the answer is. You just have to continue somehow with that outreach. A woman, or anybody, who is victimized has to start building that sense of safety. I'm happy now I can sleep at night. But that doesn't mean it's safe even in the community when I run into this person. Sometimes there are gestures or obscene words and stuff like that, and there's a lot of tension if my son runs into him and things like that, so it's still ongoing.
12:35 p.m.
As an Individual
He's growing up to be a nice, caring young man. I'm so proud of him.
12:35 p.m.
NDP
The Chair NDP Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe
Ms. Crockatt, as I said that we would be finishing at 12:45, I can give you a few more minutes. But I am going to interrupt you in about five minutes.
Madame Crockatt, you can go for a few minutes.
12:35 p.m.
Conservative
Joan Crockatt Conservative Calgary Centre, AB
I want to echo, too, ladies, my tremendous admiration to you for coming here, because I know it's not easy. My mom was involved in starting one of the early shelters in Alberta, and it was because she met someone like you on the street who had nowhere to go. She just felt that there should be a need....
Mostly it is your personal stories that we're here to hear about. Other people have spoken to the ins and outs of the legislation, but really it's you we're trying to help.
I want to finish with a couple of questions that you were asked but I thought you had something more to add. Both of you talked about this feeling of vulnerability and that you didn't feel safe, and I saw tears coming. I know these things are difficult to talk about, but you are here now and I'm just wondering if you are feeling any differently, knowing that if this bill passes, you would have a right to stay in your home if you were physically abused, a right to have that upheld by the police and the courts, and a right to get an emergency protection order against the person who was abusing you.
I'll ask you that first, Rolanda, please.
12:40 p.m.
As an Individual
Oh, absolutely.... I'm sorry, I lost track of your question.
12:40 p.m.
Conservative
Joan Crockatt Conservative Calgary Centre, AB
It's just about your feeling of vulnerability. Do you feel any differently sitting here today knowing that this bill is before Parliament now and might change the outcome for you? Does it change how you feel?
12:40 p.m.
As an Individual
It changes how I feel, and I'm hopeful for other women and men who are caretakers of their children and who provide for their children. I'm hopeful for that.
Going back to the question that Ms. Ambler asked Jennifer earlier, about whether we should get on with it or talk some more, I think this legislation should be passed, but more talk needs to happen with regard to implementing some of those other services that are needed, like the shelters, protection, and increased understanding and whatnot.
12:40 p.m.
Conservative
Joan Crockatt Conservative Calgary Centre, AB
Okay.
Jennifer, do you feel any differently now, knowing that this is what we're talking about, about women actually having the right to stay in their home? Would you feel different now living in a home on the reserve and sharing it with a man if this bill is passed?
12:40 p.m.
As an Individual
My children were elated to know they might actually be able to live in their home. They were really happy. They said, “Can we move back into our own home if this bill is passed? We've been living in somebody else's home for so long.” They were very happy.
You know, I'm the mom, so if it makes them happy, then I'm happy. They want to be home. They want to be close to their family, because all our family is in Sagkeeng.
My parents are getting older. They're grandparents. They want to be close to their family. Just because there was a marital break-up...my kids are still very close to both sides of the family. It's something that I can't replace. We can't have that in Winnipeg. We have to drive an hour and a half north to Sagkeeng to take them there.
So, yes, it definitely changed the way we feel. We're a little bit lighter, knowing that somewhere down the road we might actually be able to live in our home.
12:40 p.m.
Conservative
12:40 p.m.
As an Individual
I've never gone to a shelter—ever. I've been fortunate enough to have family open their homes to us, so I cannot say.
12:40 p.m.
Conservative
Joan Crockatt Conservative Calgary Centre, AB
But it's better to be in your own home.
Thank you again, very, very much.
12:40 p.m.
NDP
The Chair NDP Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe
Thank you, Madame Crockatt.
I want to thank our witnesses one more time.
Ms. Manitowabi, Ms. Courchene, thank you very much for accepting our invitation to appear before the committee.
I am going to call for a short break. We will resume our work in about one minute.
[Proceedings continue in camera]