Status of Women Committee on March 27th, 2023

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Good morning. I call the meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 57 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on the Status of Women. Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format pursuant to the House order of June 23, 2022. Members are attending in person in the room and remotely using the Zoom application.

I'd like to make a few comments for the benefit of witnesses and members.

Please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking. For those participating by video conference, click on the microphone. Nobody at this time is on video conference, so we should be okay there.

As to interpretation, for those on Zoom, there is the choice on your screen of floor, English or French, and for the panellists here today, you have the choice of English, French or floor.

In accordance with the committee's routine motion concerning connection tests for witnesses, I'm informing the committee that all witnesses appearing virtually have completed the required tests in advance of the meeting.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted on Tuesday, February 1, 2022, the committee will resume its study on human trafficking of women, girls and gender diverse people.

Before we welcome our witnesses, I would like to provide this trigger warning: This will be a very difficult study. We'll be discussing experiences related to abuse. This may be triggering to viewers, members or staff with similar experiences. If you feel distressed or if you need help, please advise the clerk.

I would now like to welcome our first panel.

Here in person, as an individual, we have Megan Walker, who is a women's advocate and retired executive director of the London Abused Women's Centre.

From the Concertation des luttes contre l'exploitation sexuelle, we have Diane Matte, who is the co-founder.

From the Women's Centre for Social Justice, we have Krystal Snider, lead project consultant.

I'll be providing you each with five minutes for opening comments. When you see my arms moving all wacky like this, it means you have 15 seconds. When you see me going crazy, it means you should be over.

I'm now going to pass it over to Megan. You have five minutes.

[Megan Walker, Women’s Advocate and Retired Executive Director, London Abused Women’s Centre, As an Individual]

Thank you so much.

I have worked with women and girls in the commercial sex industry since 1990, and I have shared that work and best practices with Canadian and global organizations. I use the term “women and girls in the sex industry” to describe prostituted and trafficked women and girls. Women and girls in the sex industry have reported that prostitution and trafficking are difficult to separate. Even if a woman or girl starts out independently, she can be quickly picked up by a trafficker.

Sex purchasers rarely care if a woman or girl is trafficked or underage. In fact, many of them will pay more to have sexual services with an underage girl.

Over the last 25 years, I have seen a steady increase of women, and particularly girls, lured into the sex industry by traffickers or organized crime. Many girls are lured from universities, colleges, bars and even workplaces. Parents have often reported checking online sex sites to see if the sexual services of their daughters are being advertised. As painful as this is for parents, it is how they track whether their daughters are dead or still alive.

Without sharing too many details included in the content of the advertisements, I am aware that the level of violence women and girls in the sex trade experience by sex purchasers and traffickers includes violent beatings, torture, strangulation activity and forced engagement in fetish acts. The London Police Service refers to London, Ontario, as a trafficking hub because of its proximity to Highway 401, which allows easy movement between Detroit and Toronto. It is also because of easy access to hotels and motels just off the exit ramps into the city.

Between 2014 and early 2021, under my leadership, the London Abused Women’s Centre provided direct service to at least 2,888 women and girls who identified as being in the sex industry. I find that shocking. Sixty-eight girls reported they were underage, and of those girls, 15 reported that they were under the age of 15. Only six women of the 2,888 we helped reported entering the sex industry by choice.

Exiting the sex industry is difficult. Women and girls are terrified of the threats they receive from their traffickers, including threats to kill them or members of their family. Access to detox and rehab facilities is difficult, and finding a job can be impossible if women have criminal records. Even if they can find a job, too few jobs provide a guaranteed livable income. Affordable housing is almost non-existent, and social assistance is inadequate. Women and girls are forced to remain in the sex industry because they lack the supports necessary to move on in their lives.

A three-pronged approach is critical to the work of preventing trafficking. The three prongs include providing robust funding to organizations that work with women who are trafficked and prostituted, public awareness and education, and legislation and enforcement.

Women and girls in the sex industry need immediate access to well-resourced, fully informed services across this country, including access to safe houses. Core funding is essential. Grants and time-limited funding prevent the necessary long-term work required to help victims of trafficking.

Parents and children across Canada need consistent information through public awareness and education about trafficking, including on signs to look for, identifying coercion, internet safety and tactics of luring. The Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons Act provides police with important tools to help women and girls.

Similar to the economics of supply and demand, it is the demand for prostitution that fuels the supply of women needed. That supply is provided by traffickers. When demand is reduced, so too is supply. Reducing demand, however, requires that police charge sex purchasers and that the Crown prosecute them. The failure of police across this country to enforce the PCEPA and the failure of Crown to support enforcement have contributed to growth in the commercial sex industry.

Finally, I want to talk to you about the importance of expunging records. As I said earlier, we know that women and girls who have a criminal record have a difficult time finding work. Expunging historically unjust convictions can help those women and girls move on.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Awesome. Thank you so much, Megan.

We'll now pass it over to Diane Matte.

Diane, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Diane Matte, Co-founder, Concertation des luttes contre l'exploitation sexuelle]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Committee members, I would like to start by acknowledging that we are on unceded territory of the Anishinaabe Algonquin Nation, and that indigenous and Inuit women and girls have borne, and continue to bear, the brunt of trafficking for sexual exploitation in Canada.

Concertation des luttes contre l’exploitation is a feminist organization that works with female victims of sexual exploitation to provide alternatives to women seeking to exit prostitution.

We have been in operation since 2005. We welcome and support more than 200 women and their families annually. Most of the women attending our organization are between the ages of 24 and 35. Twenty-five percent of them are women from ethno-cultural minorities, and a vast majority live in extreme poverty. As such, poverty is both a factor of entry into prostitution and a barrier to exiting this environment. Therefore, reducing poverty among women should be one of the key areas in combatting trafficking for sexual exploitation. If Canada had a guaranteed, viable minimum income, fewer women and girls would enter the sex industry and they would be less likely to be victims of human trafficking.

Today, we will focus on the issue of preventing trafficking for sexual exploitation and on support for women and girls who have been victims of this form of violence. We appreciate that this committee has decided to specifically focus on the issue of trafficking for sexual exploitation. This is a wise choice; we will get back to that later.

Although Canada passed legislation on human trafficking in 2005 and on criminalizing the purchase of sexual acts in 2014, Canada continues to treat these two crimes as though they were distinct. This is a mistake and certainly explains why our efforts to suppress this form of violence against women and girls are stagnating.

We would like to propose three major changes to the government's approach to suppressing trafficking for sexual exploitation.

First, as set out in the Palermo protocol and as the United Nations General Assembly reiterated last December, governments must “intensify their efforts to prevent and address, with a view to eliminating, the demand that fosters the trafficking of women and girls for all forms of exploitation and in this regard to put in place or enhance preventive measures, including legislative and punitive measures to deter exploiters of trafficked persons, as well as ensure their accountability.”

Addressing demand is the key tool in suppressing trafficking. All the countries that have adopted a socio-legal model criminalizing the purchase of sexual acts have seen a significant decline in trafficking for sexual exploitation on their territory.

Canada has similar legislation, the Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons Act, or PCEPA, which criminalizes the purchase of sexual acts in Canada. However, it is not properly implemented. There are many inconsistencies and seldom any prevention, for example, messaging for those who purchase sexual acts, who are the root of the problem.

Second, we know that a majority of women in the sex industry would like to exit. The research shows that such is the case for 80% to 95% of the women interviewed. However, they do not have access to the assistance and support they need, including access to income, access to housing, access to status where necessary, access to education or work, and psychosocial support. The equality model, also known as the Nordic model, which has been adopted by some countries, such as Sweden, Iceland, Norway, France and Ireland, together with legal and social tools to change the behaviours of those who use paid sex acts, provide more security and protection for women, who are the victims.

It is recommended that the Government of Canada follow the lead of France, for example, and work to define or implement a support program for exiting prostitution. Such action would be consistent with the two pieces of legislation that we have.

Third, commercial sexual exploitation is the most taboo form of violence against women and girls. Trafficking for sexual exploitation is intimately tied to equality for all women.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Diane, we'll have to wrap this up. You're a few seconds over. Hopefully we'll get more into that during questions. Thank you so much.

We'll now move to Krystal Snider for five minutes.

[Krystal Snider, Lead Project Consultant, Women's Centre for Social Justice]

Thank you so much.

I first want to acknowledge that we're meeting on unceded Algonquin Anishinabe territory. It is especially important for me not only to ground myself in acknowledging the land I'm occupying as a settler when doing anti-trafficking work, but also to stand in solidarity with its first people, especially because of the overrepresentation of indigenous women and girls and two-spirit folks, who are overwhelmingly targeted for human trafficking.

My name is Krystal Snider. I want to acknowledge my colleagues Nicole Taylor and Nneka MacGregor, who co-authored this submission, as well as the many survivors who have provided critical input. I am lead project consultant for a program called “Embedding, Resilience, & Grounding Resistance”, led by the Women's Centre for Social Justice, better known as WomenatthecentrE.

Thank you for the opportunity to be here to speak and participate in this important study. As a survivor of domestic sex trafficking and the child welfare system, and the daughter of a mother who attended Ontario training schools, having the opportunity to speak about prevention and accountability is significant and impactful.

WomenatthecentrE's anti-trafficking project, funded by Women and Gender Equality Canada, is a project led and developed by and for survivors of various forms of trafficking and exploitation. Through the project, we're conducting community-based participatory research with other survivors of trafficking, creating a national network of survivors of trafficking, developing a national survivor strategy and providing training for peer workers, media, hotel staff, health care, law enforcement and frontline agencies.

WomenatthecentrE wants to acknowledge the incredible work that has been done and is being done across what we now call Canada. We're grateful for the many wonderful people who are working tirelessly to disrupt and eradicate trafficking nationwide.

Since the project began, we have amplified our engagements with survivors to document what is and isn't working and what will lead to long-term and sustainable change. These include specific gaps related to the ongoing arrest and convictions of survivors of trafficking as traffickers; holding survivors accountable for other crimes committed while under the control of a trafficker; and the consistent overrepresentation of Black, indigenous and racialized women, girls, two-spirit, gender-diverse and trans individuals who are not only disproportionately trafficked but also disproportionately charged and convicted of crimes related to their trafficking.

One of our recommendations is that the United Nations non-punishment principle be adopted and embedded in training for law enforcement across the country for consistency and alignment with the rights of survivors. The non-punishment principle states that a survivor of trafficking cannot be held legally accountable for a crime committed while under a trafficker's control. Further to this, we recommend that service agencies adopt the same framework and provide supports to survivors who have recruited others while under the direction of a trafficker.

In addition, the laws related to sex work are again to be challenged in the Supreme Court in the near future. We want to caution against the conflation of sex work with sex trafficking. We acknowledge that there's a divide between sex workers and sex worker rights advocates and those impacted or trafficked in the industry, but we do want to shine light on the significant harm that has come against sex workers as a result of adopting the Nordic model—most notably, the harm to and mass deportation of migrant sex workers who do not identify as trafficked. We encourage the federal government to create pathways for conversation between these divided groups, to uphold the rights of sex workers by engaging such organizations as Butterfly and to adopt a GBA+ lens, which includes impacts on sex workers, when creating or amending existing legislation.

WomenatthecentrE states that the consistent use of victimization language and “saviourism” by individuals and organizations involved in anti-trafficking efforts, including law enforcement and service providers, is demeaning and a testament to just how helpless and broken the structures and systems think we might be. These systems and structures are meant to provide support and assistance to survivors of exploitation, and sometimes are the sites of further trauma and revictimization. They fail to take into account the diverse needs of survivors, especially, as we stated above, those who are what our board co-chair, Dr. Tope Adefarakan, refers to as “living on the margins of the margins”—Black and indigenous people; women; girls; two-spirit, gender-diverse and trans people; youth; those living with disabilities; those with precarious status, etc.

I'll wrap it up, but hopefully we can get to the rest of this. Thanks for having me. I'm happy to answer your questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you so much, Krystal.

We're now going to start a round. We'll go around for six minutes for the first round, and we'll start with Anna Roberts for the CPC.

Anna, you have six minutes.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to all the witnesses for being here.

I'm going to ask Ms. Walker a few questions. First of all, congratulations on helping more than 8,000 women and on your work with Shine the Light. That is to be commended. Thank you for doing that.

My question pertains to Bill C-36 from 2014, which targets Johns who purchase sex and the pimps who profit from it, while providing support for prostitutes who are looking to escape sex work. Do you believe the implementation and enforcement of this bill is working?

[Megan Walker]

I am very supportive of the bill. Unfortunately, because it's not being enforced, it's difficult to say how much it is working. We do know from the Juristat released in 2021 that before and after studies show there has been an effective response, that women and girls are able to leave more easily at this point and that fewer women and girls are being murdered. The other thing we know from that report is there has been a slight decline in the number of men purchasing sexual services.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

Do you have any stats you could share with this committee?

[Megan Walker]

I do, and I was going to leave this paper with you so you would have it.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

Perfect. Thank you.

From your work, what differences do you see across the country in human trafficking and sexual exploitation?

[Megan Walker]

Ontario is one of the biggest hubs of both recruitment and transport. We know there's an increase of women and girls going through what they call the “circuit” in Ontario. It's very difficult once they're in to get out, and the level of violence is absolutely off the charts. We see before and after pictures that family members provide us of their daughters before they were trafficked and then after, and they are unrecognizable and not the same women and girls.

I think the other thing to remember is that trafficking is not an individual concern; it's a concern that impacts all of society. Whenever there is trafficking or prostitution, there is an increase in organized crime, an increase in guns and gangs and an increase in violence.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

Is there any way you could share with us some of the data from your findings? Can you give us some of that for the record?

[Megan Walker]

Absolutely.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Megan, I think she wants you to read it now.

[Megan Walker]

I'm so sorry. I was making a note to provide it.

It's very complex, and I will absolutely provide that data. I just don't have it right in front of me now, and I don't want to make any errors in trying to recall it.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

If you could table it with the committee, we would appreciate it. I think if we have numbers to go on, we will be in a better position to tackle the issue, as you've referred to it.

As to the next question I have for you, you have stated, “I don't believe there is any woman that would willingly expose herself to today's pornography, which is very brutal.” You have also said, “I want the government to indicate that there's no difference between trafficking, prostitution and pornography. They're all one and the same.” Can you share with the committee your thoughts on that, please?

[Megan Walker]

It's all about the exploitation of women and girls because they are women and girls. Pornography is being used at this point to force women and girls to play out those acts with sex purchasers, as an example, or with their intimate partners. Fortunately, we have seen Pornhub close down because they were receiving so many complaints from women and girls who had no idea they were being videotaped. Those tapes were being put on the Pornhub site, which as you can imagine is devastating, because once they're on the site, they're difficult to remove. Pornhub did shut down, but now we see that some individuals have come back and it will be reopening again soon.

Pornhub, trafficking and prostitution are all, in my opinion, tactics of male violence against women and sexual exploitation, and that is not just from me. That is what is reported to us on an ongoing basis. When I was at the London Abused Women's Centre—

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

I'm sorry to interrupt, but I don't have a lot of time left.

You said Pornhub has been shut down. I don't think it has.

[Megan Walker]

It was temporarily shut down. There was a lot of effort done by a woman in California and Pornhub was taken down, but it will be right back.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

Okay, because I believe it is....

[Diane Matte]

It is right back.

[Megan Walker]

It's right back now.