Status of Women Committee on March 27th, 2023

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

It is back, so it's not—

[Diane Matte]

It's been sold to someone else.

[Megan Walker]

Yes, it's been sold. That's it.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

Femicide is a very important issue in the work you do. What is the link between femicide and trafficking?

[Megan Walker]

Femicide is about the killing of women because they are women. I would say that trafficking is about exploiting women and girls because they are women and girls. We know that a number of women and girls are killed by their traffickers or sex purchasers, and we've seen that, so there is a link.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

I did some research recently, and I found out that the jail time for human traffickers is much less. They could go in for two years or less, whereas if they had committed a different crime, it would be a greater sentence.

Do you agree that sentencing has to be reviewed so that it meets the crime? I don't think they're getting enough time in jail.

[Megan Walker]

I totally agree with that. What is important to recognize is that in almost all crimes against women, the sentence for the perpetrator is much less than it would be if it were a man.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you.

We'll now move over to Marc Serré.

Marc, you have six minutes.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I thank the witnesses for the work they do in this field every day.

Our study is about human trafficking. My questions are about providing support for victims and giving them more power.

My first question is for Krystal Snider. Earlier, you spoke about gender-based analysis+, or GBA+.

Can you elaborate on how the government can use certain examples to enhance the legislation in this area?

How is this related to the funding allocated by the Department for Women and Gender Equality?

[Krystal Snider]

GBA+ is a government initiative about looking at policies, procedures and processes through an intersectional lens. When it came to laws in 2016 and 2014, I don't think that lens was adopted when they were rewritten, and I think we can do better.

I think the lens of sex workers and, further to that, sex workers who are trans, sex workers of colour and sex workers with disabilities.... They are all impacted by this legislation differently. My recommendation—WomenatthecentrE's recommendation—is that you adopt your own method of applying policy but consider that specific impact when reviewing legislation.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you.

Ms. Matte, you spoke earlier about the lack of support for indigenous women. That is a major problem here in Canada.

Earlier, you recommended improving the legislation.

Can you give us some examples in that regard? Are you talking about a specific law to protect indigenous women?

[Diane Matte]

Thank you for the question.

In 2016, France created a law similar to the one that we passed in 2014 to criminalize the purchase of sexual acts. In 2016, the government of France also embraced the concept of offering a program to provide direct support to women who want to exit prostitution. In that regard, I would encourage you to look at France's model, which is very good. It gives women access to housing and assistance for two or three years so that they can carry out their plan to exit prostitution. It is the same thing for human trafficking. It is much easier to enter or be brought into it than it is to get out. Getting out takes time, resources and, most importantly, money. Often, women who are exiting the sex trade are even poorer than they were when they entered it.

I would like to take a few moments to talk about how gender-based analysis+, or GBA+, applies to sex workers.

In my opinion, it is a mistake to look only at this perspective. GBA+ is based on the systems of oppression and discrimination that exist in Canada. If we really want to look at the laws through a GBA+ lens, we need to do so from the premise that trafficking, and especially sexual exploitation, result from existing social and economic inequalities that affect women in particular.

We therefore need to take all women into consideration. We cannot just look at those who, for one reason or another, chose to enter the sex trade or wanted to work in it.

Many organizations in Canada meet a sufficient number of women who ended up in the sex trade because of a lack of choices in their lives. They become victims of trafficking and end up trapped in that situation of domination for weeks, months, or even years because of the individuals or prostitution rings that picked them up. If we really want to define human trafficking, particularly trafficking for the purposes of sexual exploitation, we need to recognize that this is an act of domination. If we are not thinking about gender equality in this context, then we are missing the mark.

I want to take this opportunity to talk about my third recommendation. The prevention and criminalization of human trafficking is not just a matter of public safety. It is a societal choice that we have to make. We also need to consider gender equality. We should therefore have a national action plan on sexual exploitation in Canada. It would be an additional tool for prevention and action, as well as for supporting the women who are exiting this type of situation.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

That is excellent. Thank you.

I have 30 seconds left.

I want to ask something of Megan Walker. Thank you for the years you've been working to support victims and empower them.

You mentioned in your recommendations core funding, public awareness and legislation. Can you please expand for the committee and the federal government what you mean by legislation?

[Megan Walker]

First of all, it's important to note that women and girls are immune from prosecution under the PCEPA. That's very important, except there's one clause in PCEPA that does criminalize women if they are prostituting themselves in specific areas. We do not support that, and we would ask that this be removed. I also think there needs to be better legislation.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Could you provide that clause to the committee?

[Megan Walker]

Yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Fantastic.

We're now going to pass the next six minutes to Andréanne Larouche.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I want to thank Ms. Snider, Ms. Matte and Ms. Walker for being here with us today to discuss human trafficking, which causes women to be the victims of sexual exploitation. The evidence shows that 96% of the victims of human trafficking are women. That is huge. It is important to point that out. Every time I think of that number, I think about how disproportionate it is and I realize that this is a feminist issue.

I will direct my first question to you, Ms. Matte. In your recommendations, you spoke a lot about laws and the criminal aspect of human trafficking, but I would like you to talk more about the importance of implementing Canada’s Action Plan for the Implementation of United Nations Security Council Resolutions on Women, Peace and Security for 2017-2022. There was even a first iteration in 2012. There is already an action plan for human trafficking on the table and yet the numbers continue to rise.

Can you tell us what difference implementing this action plan would make when it come to the trafficking of women?

[Diane Matte]

To my knowledge, there is nothing in that action plan to address the demand.

Once again, if we are serious about cracking down on trafficking, then we have to address the root causes. Addressing the demand should therefore be part of the national action plan. I don't know for sure, but to my knowledge, the existing plan does not address the demand. Since the plan falls under the responsibility of Public Safety Canada, it focuses a lot more on criminal, legal and policing issues.

We think that the Department for Women and Gender Equality should be more involved in the matter of human trafficking. I know that the department funds projects and no doubt has very worthwhile programs. However, when it comes to researching and understanding this phenomenon, we cannot separate the matter of gender equality and social equality in general from the phenomenon of trafficking for sexual exploitation or just sexual exploitation in its own right. Addressing the demand is really of the utmost importance.

We really need to make an effort as a society. I agree with you that 96% of human trafficking victims are women. That should be a wake-up call and a major cause for concern. We should be trying to find out why. The answer can be found in the existence of the sex trade. That is why we have had legislation since 2014 that prohibits the commodification of the sexuality of women and girls, or of any person. However, we know that this mainly affects women and girls.

I would like to point out something else. Often we think that there are two extremes: those who are in favour of sex work and those who are in favour of abolishing prostitution. According to organizations such as the United Nations, or UN, and the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe, or OSCE, in order to address trafficking for sexual exploitation and human trafficking, we must address the demand. These are not radical individuals or groups. According to many international organizations, addressing the demand is key to obtaining results in fight against human trafficking.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

That is indeed an interesting aspect.

You talked about Public Safety, but you also spoke about the Department for Women and Gender Equality when it comes to prevention. Clearly, this work must be done upstream and downstream, but there is also a middle ground. We cannot ignore any of those three aspects.

There must be co-operation among the various departments. The work needs to focus on prevention and education and on supporting women from the outset. We also need to do a better job of identifying victims and ensuring that we have more tools, at our borders in particular, even though that I know that most of these crimes are committed in Canada. What tools will help us to better identify victims so that we can help them?

We hope to work on prevention to reduce the number of women who end up in this situation. There is some form of co-operation between the various departments in Ottawa, but there must also be co-operation among the different levels of government. We need to consider the issue of social services to support the women, particularly in Quebec. Our federal laws also need to take into account the capacity of the various levels of government to support victims. There are even things that could be done in terms of housing, for example, the implementation of projects at the municipal level. How can the various levels of government work together?

[Diane Matte]

In my opinion, this problem is related to the root causes of the problem and to who can do what.

In that regard, I think we need to follow Quebec's lead. When I talk about a support program for exiting prostitution, I think about the committee that examined the sexual exploitation of minors a few years ago. According to that committee, we need specific support programs that are provided directly to people, not just funding programs for organizations like ours, even though that is also very important. We need to implement specific programs that are offered directly to women. All levels of government need to work together on that.

It does not make sense to talk about the importance of identifying victims. I don't know whether such is the case in your communities, but in Montreal, there are all kinds of massage parlours and many young women who are being sexually exploited, and nothing is being done about it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you so much, Diane. I'm sure there's lots to add, so we will get back to that.

Leah, you have six minutes.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you.

I have a very quick question for a yes-or-no answer from all the witnesses.

I introduced Bill C-223 to put in place a guaranteed livable basic income. Whether you support the rights of sex workers or not, I think we can all agree that a guaranteed livable basic income, in addition to affordable, accessible housing with rent geared to income, would help wherever you stand with this situation.

Yes or no, would a guaranteed livable basic income be a foundational piece to address this?

[Megan Walker]

Yes, it's an important part of the puzzle.