Status of Women Committee on March 27th, 2023

[Diane Matte]

No, absolutely not.

In 2014, the Concertation des luttes contre l'exploitation sexuelle provided an overview of the sex trade in Montreal and the surrounding areas. We identified 270 massage parlours in Montreal and its suburbs alone. We are talking about thousands of women who are in this type of situation and these infamous massage parlours. The police cannot do anything unless there is a complaint.

In a few seconds, I would say that the sex trade has managed to establish itself in our minds and in our communities as an industry like any other.

In order to get a licence to open a massage parlour, all I need to do is request a licence to provide personal care services. It is the same thing for hair stylists. Anyone who offers personal care services, such as massage therapy, can get a licence. As Ms. Larouche mentioned, there is a lack of co-operation between the various levels of government. The municipal regulations for obtaining a licence do not govern what happens inside those establishments. The police do not intervene either, unless there is a complaint. The massage parlours are—

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

In that case, should we be doing more, Ms. Matte?

[Diane Matte]

Yes, obviously.

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Okay.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you so much.

We're now going to pass it over to Sonia Sidhu, who is online. She'll be asking the questions online.

Sonia, you have five minutes.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to all the witnesses for joining us and sharing their insights, especially their lived experiences on this difficult topic.

My question will be directed to Ms. Snider.

Ms. Snider, on the weekend I attended an event with Embrave, from Peel, a local agency working to provide support to survivors and their families. They have a hotline, a shelter and peer-to-peer support.

Do you believe the wraparound approach is effective?

[Krystal Snider]

Yes.

If you look at the national strategy, a significant gap was in the leveraging of lived experience and the funding of peer-type projects and peer agencies.

You spoke about family, and that was another piece that was significantly missed in the national strategy: family reunification and family strengthening. It can be very difficult to traffic people who are well connected to others and to themselves. Yes, I believe that's an effective strategy.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

I know you are doing a lot of good work with the data. How can we improve data collection for human trafficking across the country?

[Krystal Snider]

I definitely don't feel equipped to answer that question, other than to say to have conversations at the national level.

I heard there was a national table to end human trafficking meeting. The first I heard of this was watching one of these videos. I wonder about expanding those national tables and incorporating...not just incorporating, but making it necessary for folks with lived experience to be sitting there. Not only would they be sitting there; they'd also be getting paid for their time in helping to bring those things to fruition and not being re-exploited.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

We heard that all levels need to be working on the matter of care. How can we make sure all partners are using a consistent approach or response?

[Krystal Snider]

I think it's in creating those national guidelines. I saw that there was a call for them some time ago. I don't believe anybody was awarded that call for national guidelines to set a standard for human trafficking identification awareness for frontline workers and beyond in Canada. Perhaps revisit that.

Again, that's more of a collective approach, rather than one agency holding it.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

Thank you.

We know technology and online exploitation are big components in the issue of human trafficking. In your view, how can we combat human trafficking in online spaces?

[Krystal Snider]

I think there is significant accountability for social media platforms. That needs to be addressed and possibly legislated.

The youth know this, yet youth need to be made aware. They need to lead these initiatives as well, in terms of online awareness and the gaps they see. I have a 16-year-old daughter. She's the first person I ask about different privacy things on apps and how to navigate different trends coming up. I think centring youth in those initiatives is important for prevention.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

You spoke about having survivors at the table when engaging with survivors. Can you comment on the importance of trauma-informed care?

[Krystal Snider]

I'm speaking to meaningful engagement with survivors. I think survivor-led initiatives are important. We're certainly hearing more about them.

I think there need to be not just trauma-informed spaces but survivor-informed spaces. There are multiple nuances that need to be considered when inviting survivors to the table. We have to be very aware of how we might re-exploit survivors when we engage them, and how to mitigate those risks.

Also, it's having more than one survivor. I cannot speak for all survivors across the country. I am a white, cis, straight woman; my experience is very different from the experience of other survivors. There is a need for a variety of folks to come forward about their own experiences in a way that is meaningful.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

Thank you.

Are there any last comments on that?

[Krystal Snider]

No. It will come later, after I'm all done here.

[Megan Walker]

Can I update you on two items you raised?

One is around how we collect data. The Human Trafficking Hotline in Toronto acts for the entire country and is doing data collection, which is very valuable.

Secondly, I just wanted to—

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Excuse me for interrupting, Madam Chair.

There is a problem with the interpretation. Earlier, a microphone turned itself on and that seems to have blocked the interpretation. I do not know what is happening on the technical side of things.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Yes, that's right.

The time was up for that one.

I'll let you know what's going on. The interpreters have asked to reboot. It will take us five minutes if we do so. We have three minutes left for this panel. I have four minutes left of questions.

You have two minutes and Leah has two minutes. The issue here is that we will also be rebooting on the next section, because we'll be going in camera.

I am going to ask if we can personally be responsible. I recognize that the translators need to be able to do their jobs, but I'm asking whether we can all be responsible for the microphones around us to ensure that we get the work of the committee done on top of having to reboot it. That is so we can work and do both at the same time, so can we all watch these?

Marc, you're in charge of all of those five. You're in charge of those.

We're going to all work together. If you see a red light and no one's speaking, please tap it.

I'm going to pass it over to Andréanne. You have two minutes. Go ahead.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I want to once again thank the three witnesses, Ms. Snider, Ms. Matte and Ms. Walker, for being here.

I want to address something that Ms. Walker and Ms. Snider both brought up.

As we have seen, the pandemic changed the face of human trafficking. A lot of it has moved to online spaces.

Ms. Snider talked a bit about the importance of taking action against cybercrime and cyberviolence, but I would like to know what Ms. Walker thinks about that.

Should the government adopt legislation to tighten control over what is happening online with human trafficking?

[Megan Walker]

Absolutely. Traffickers will recruit from wherever they can, whether it's online, on the streets, at a bar or a restaurant or wherever it is.

Of course, online is a major hub for luring, but more importantly, it's a major hub for exploitation. Many girls, particularly those who are underage, are groomed on social media to believe that the person talking to them is a friend who would like to have a relationship with them. On many occasions like that, she's forced to touch herself, take off her clothes or do things like that. This is the link to Pornhub or pornography, because often whatever she is doing is then transferred and uploaded onto Pornhub and other porn sites.

How do we stop it? Trafficking is a really complex issue. The core of it involves primarily women, and women do not have equal rights in this country. Women need rights, and we need to name the problem that is impacting women. In this case, it's trafficking. In other cases, it's male violence against women in domestic relationships—

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

That's perfect.

I'm sorry. I didn't have my arms going enough, Megan. It's all good.

[Megan Walker]

I'm sorry. I thought it was a windmill.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!