Evidence of meeting #49 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was million.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
But are you telling me that the amount has been determined beyond 2013?
4:15 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Corporate Services, Department of Transport
What will happen after 2013?
4:20 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Corporate Services, Department of Transport
It will be $1 per year.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
What will happen to the transfer from Transport Canada to the NCC?
4:20 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Corporate Services, Department of Transport
That has not been determined.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
Now, are you telling me that it has not been determined that the amount will be around $180,000?
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Lawrence Cannon Conservative Pontiac, QC
No, you are the one who brought up the figure of $180,000. I do not know the figure.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
As a matter of fact, according to some information, following a submission—
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
Let us go on to another subject. How do you explain this decision? How does it align with the Auditor General's recommendations?
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
According to her recommendations, the government should not use indirect means to do the things that it can do directly. In this case, indirect subsidies are involved. If you need to subsidize the Queensway-Carleton Hospital, it should be done directly. The money could come from some place other than Transport Canada.
How does the department justify its disregard of the Auditor General's recommendations?
4:20 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Transport
The issue was discussed before making the decision.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
My question is for the minister.
Mr. Minister, how do you explain the fact that you have disregarded the Auditor General's recommendations?
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Lawrence Cannon Conservative Pontiac, QC
You are presuming that we have gone against the Auditor General's recommendations. Of course, we must determine whether that really happened. You are the one who said this.
We are dealing with public property that is, of course, used by the public. The transfer amounts to the modest sum of $1 a year. You know that as well as I do.
You are referring to things that were never in any way mentioned by the Auditor General. I am saying that this was authorized by the government, by Treasury Board and by cabinet. That is all.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
Mr. Minister, Mr. Austin, the Assistant Secretary of the Treasury Board Secretariat made a statement before the Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates, and I quote:
The Auditor General has raised concerns in the past regarding the need for transparency for Parliament and the recognition of the value of real property when transacting to avoid indirect subsidization.
Moreover, Treasury Board adopted policies for reviewing this.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Lawrence Cannon Conservative Pontiac, QC
However, regarding the case at hand, Mr. Bélanger, there is no basis to your allegations. You stated a general principle. I agree with you regarding the general principle.
Now, we will have to see, of course, what happened in this specific case.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
In this specific case, it was confirmed that there is an annual transfer equivalent to the former lease. My information says that the lease was renewed and that it amounts to about $180,000.
If you want to deny that there will be a transfer, it is all right with me, but I want to know.