Evidence of meeting #14 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was helicopter.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:40 a.m.
Liberal
Bonnie Crombie Liberal Mississauga—Streetsville, ON
I don't know if you're aware, but the minister recently removed certification and oversight from the industry. I wonder if you might comment on that. Can you illuminate why he may have done that?
9:40 a.m.
Co-Chair, Canadian Joint Helicopter Safety Analysis Team, International Helicopter Safety Team
I believe that this was for the CBAA. I can't really comment on that aspect of the industry.
9:40 a.m.
Liberal
Bonnie Crombie Liberal Mississauga—Streetsville, ON
Nobody seems to want to comment on it. We want to know why this happened. Can you give us an idea of why you think it might have happened?
9:45 a.m.
Executive Committee Member, International Helicopter Safety Team
You need to ask the Transport Canada people.
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
Bonnie Crombie Liberal Mississauga—Streetsville, ON
We have to ask Transport Canada people...?
Why was your industry in particular singled out and the CBAA certification oversight removed?
9:45 a.m.
Co-Chair, Canadian Joint Helicopter Safety Analysis Team, International Helicopter Safety Team
It's more complex. I'm not an expert, but certainly--
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
Bonnie Crombie Liberal Mississauga—Streetsville, ON
You seem to be an expert on a lot of things. You have a lot of background in data collection. There must be some indication as to why this happened.
9:45 a.m.
Co-Chair, Canadian Joint Helicopter Safety Analysis Team, International Helicopter Safety Team
Well, it's also whether one passenger flying, whether on a private aircraft or on a commercial aircraft, should have the right to the same standards, basically, in short, in my interpretation.
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
9:45 a.m.
Executive Committee Member, International Helicopter Safety Team
Yes, but it does not show up in the accident database. It is a factor, but it is a 20% factor. It is not as critical as the human factor, which is part of judgment and situational awareness, which is mitigated through training.
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
Bonnie Crombie Liberal Mississauga—Streetsville, ON
So you're attributing the majority of incidents or accidents to judgment error.
9:45 a.m.
Executive Committee Member, International Helicopter Safety Team
To some kind of situational decision-making--that's correct.
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
Bonnie Crombie Liberal Mississauga—Streetsville, ON
How can we improve that? Is it increased training for pilots or screening of some sort? How can it be done?
9:45 a.m.
Executive Committee Member, International Helicopter Safety Team
That's precisely what we found out. It's all data based; there are no human emotions involved here. The data shows that simulator-based training is the foremost factor that will impact pilot judgment and decision-making.
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
Bonnie Crombie Liberal Mississauga—Streetsville, ON
Do all helicopter pilots receive training on simulators?
9:45 a.m.
Executive Committee Member, International Helicopter Safety Team
Nowhere: they don't exist for the light helicopters.
For the big ones, they have simulators, and they go through simulator training, and the military does. But as soon as you change down to the lighter helicopters, all you can have is perhaps fixed-base pilot training with a simulated cockpit, but not simulating six-axis motion. You can't; it's just too expensive.
9:45 a.m.
Co-Chair, Canadian Joint Helicopter Safety Analysis Team, International Helicopter Safety Team
For the lighter aircraft, they have to fly in the helicopter itself so that they can do emergencies. But with the simulators, you can push the boundaries of the emergencies.
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
Bonnie Crombie Liberal Mississauga—Streetsville, ON
Wouldn't the training that all helicopter pilots receive be similar? Wouldn't they all receive training on simulators? I guess the question is, shouldn't they all receive training on simulators?
9:45 a.m.
Co-Chair, Canadian Joint Helicopter Safety Analysis Team, International Helicopter Safety Team
In a perfect world, that would be ideal, because then you can build scenarios. This is what the IHST has addressed.
There's a training syllabus as well. The HAC, the Canadian association, is coming out with industry best practices for each segment, an action that addresses training as well. However, there are still issues wherever the access to flight simulators is limited.
As you've seen, the majority of our aircraft in Canada are light, single-engine helicopters that are flying for mining companies most of the time, for forest fires—primarily for support up north. We don't have access to flight simulators for these types of aircraft and that's a bit of a problem.
9:45 a.m.
Executive Committee Member, International Helicopter Safety Team
Just to add to that, the simulator design is expensive, so if you do the cost-effective thing, that's where the industry has to bring things down to a lower cost, which hasn't happened yet.
It is happening: we're talking.
9:45 a.m.
Bloc
Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC
Thank you.
I will give you some time to adjust your earpiece.
My first question will be for you, Mr. Dunlap.
9:45 a.m.
Director, Security and Travel Facilitation (Global), International Air Transport Association
I am not able to speak French.
