Transport Committee on May 13th, 2021

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Thank you to Mr. Garneau and to my colleague for the question.

It is, of course, an important question. We are continuing to advocate for reforms of annex 13. Also, as I said in my earlier response, there's willingness on behalf of ICAO and other international partners to have these discussions. That's not to say that these discussions won't be difficult and that different ideas won't be debated, but we are committed to seeing a way to strengthen annex 13.

I also want to take a moment to answer another question about our resolve to get to the bottom of this. While it is frustrating to see that Iran continues to avoid answering these questions, and while we remain committed to pursuing international processes and multilateral organizations to get these answers, we keep all options on the table. We are going to pursue all options, but we will continue to exhaust international processes. We're going to continue to work with international partners to put pressure on Iran to get there, but all options are on the table.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Barsalou-Duval.

We're now going to move to the NDP for two and a half minutes.

Mr. Bachrach, you have the floor.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, has Canada brought the issue of accountability in this matter to the United Nations? If Canada is not successful at ensuring accountability, is this a matter that Canada would be willing to push for the UN Security Council to address?

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

We brought this matter to the United Nations, and to the United Nations Human Rights Council as well, in March of this year.

As I said, I've just come back from the G7, and it is in the communiqué of the G7, so it is something that we, as a country, are bringing to the attention of as many multilateral groups as possible, to point out the unacceptable behaviour exhibited by Iran.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Minister, Ralph Goodale was appointed and was acting as a special adviser on PS752 and was tasked with developing recommendations and mechanisms that could prevent such disasters in the future. Last month, the Prime Minister appointed him the new high commissioner to the U.K. I'm wondering what happens to his role on this file and whether a new special adviser will be appointed.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

The situation is that Special Advisor Ralph Goodale was given a specific task. He completed that task with an extremely comprehensive report, which he delivered to the Prime Minister last Christmas, with a number of recommendations and, of course, with a list of questions that remain to be answered.

His mandate is complete. He has done his job. I can tell you that he is still very personally involved. I saw him last week, and it was the first subject he wanted to talk about, because he has had so many conversations with the families and he wants—as do all of us—to see this resolved in a satisfactory manner.

His job is complete, and Minister Alghabra and I are continuing. We have all the facts and we have the mandate to do everything that needs to be done.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Mr. Bachrach, you have time for a quick question.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

I'm not sure I can articulate it quickly, but the question is around the information Minister Alghabra was providing for air operators. It seems as though steps are being taken to inform the airlines in a more accurate and timely way about potential conflicts. However, the ultimate decisions and assessments are still being left to those air operators.

I see the minister shaking his head. Perhaps he could elaborate on how we're moving towards a different situation.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Thank you to my colleague for his question to help me clarify.

As I stated, there are three levels of notification that we provide to air operators. First is information. Second is recommendations. The third is a ban.

In fact, I can say that the newly formed office recently issued a NOTAM over certain parts of Ukraine because of the rising military tension at that border. We've seen the results of this office take effect in the issuance of a ban for Canadian operators. They are not to travel over that region.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Minister Alghabra.

Thank you, Mr. Bachrach.

We're now going to move to Mrs. Kusie for the Conservatives, for five minutes.

Mrs. Kusie, you have the floor.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'll be passing on my time to Mr. Kram.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Mr. Kram, go ahead.

I think you're on mute, Michael.

Press it again. We're not hearing you.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

It's okay. I'll go ahead while Mr. Kram is getting set up there.

I'll go back to Minister Garneau, Mr. Chair, if you will acknowledge me.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Sure. Go ahead, Mrs. Kusie.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Minister Garneau, I just absolutely have to compliment your colleagues who are here today, who all just make fantastic points—Mr. Ehsassi in particular. He outlines very clearly, and even more articulately than I do, the atrocities of the Iranian government in its attempts to stymie and hold up this process.

However, the reality is that you have the opportunity to do something significant outside of a bursary, a compensation or a day of recognition—those are all valuable things. I repeat this again: Why are you waiting for these outcomes from the Iranian government, when you have victims' families that clearly feel that your government is not doing enough? Why will you not take significant unilateral action, such as the Magnitsky sanctions, as we have talked about? I feel you've done a valuable job of explaining the IRGC. Why are you not taking further unilateral actions? It is not clear to me, when your colleagues have so clearly outlined that the Government of Iran is.... We cannot rely on the information that it will provide to us.

Your colleague, the honourable Minister of Transport, Minister Alghabra, said that we hope that this will never happen again. It will. It absolutely will, if we do not take accountability as a nation to hold these other governments to account. What will you do, please, Minister?

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

We've been insisting on accountability from the beginning, and accountability has not been provided. We will continue to insist on accountability as we move forward.

There is a process in place. That process also involves negotiations with Iran, which are going to start in the near future. We will be negotiating for reparations. At this point, it is important for us to continue the process, which will also yield a forensic report in the coming weeks, followed by the process of negotiation, which may take some time. It is important for us to stick to that path and, during all of that time, to continue to insist on accountability and transparency and to criticize Iran when it is not providing it, which, up until now, it has not provided.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

At what point will you stop expecting them to be accountable, when they have clearly shown to this point that we cannot rely on them? Your colleague, again, pointed out the atrocities of bulldozing human remains, of denying the black box. Minister, these are significant things that I certainly believe no one within our world would possibly allow.

Minister, what is the point at which you will be satisfied with the responses that you receive from the Government of Iran, which I feel very confident will be less than sufficient?

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

When we get all the answers, that's when we're going to be satisfied. We do not have all the answers. In the meantime, we're going to continue to push for them, and we're going to continue on multilateral forums, such as the United Nations and the Human Rights Council, to point out that Iran has been derelict in its obligations to provide accountability. We will continue that process until we get all the answers. We owe it to the families, and we owe it to Canadians.

Believe me, I have been involved in this process since the beginning, and I am determined to put in all of my energy to make sure that we get to satisfactory resolution of this issue.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Minister Garneau and Mrs. Kusie.

Go ahead, Minister Alghabra.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

I just want to affirm my colleague Minister Garneau's passion and resolve to pursue international forums and processes to get to the bottom of this.

I also want to add that, as I and Minister Garneau have committed to families, we are not going to relent. We will pursue other options that will have recourse measures for us to get answers if the process is exhausted without getting to the bottom of this. These processes tend to be painfully long. I understand that. If we want to pursue other recourses, we need to first continue to exhaust the international processes that are internationally agreed upon. If that process does not yield our expectation, we will continue to consider options, including the Security Council, the International Court of Justice and other mechanisms, but we need to continue to focus on this internationally recognized process.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Minister Alghabra.

We will go to our final speaker of this round, Ms. Martinez Ferrada.

You have the floor for five minutes.

[Soraya Martinez Ferrada, Liberal, Hochelaga, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to both witnesses for being with us this evening to discuss a tragedy that has affected all Canadians. I remember where I was when I heard the sad news.

My question is for Minister Alghabra.

Minister Alghabra, you discussed the safer skies initiative earlier. Can you tell us a little more about what's proposed in that initiative? How can Canada, acting alone or in cooperation with other countries, ensure the initiative works and becomes a reality?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Mr. Chair, I want to take a moment to thank my colleague and parliamentary secretary for her hard work and welcome her to the committee and to Transport Canada. Her advocacy and insight have been incredibly helpful to Transport Canada.

Under the safer skies initiative, Canada established a domestic conflict zone information office. This office monitors foreign conflict zones 24-7 and creates efficient and timely sharing of information and intelligence both domestically and internationally. On a regular basis, this office monitors and assesses risks at areas of interest and shares information with air operators. Based on the assessment the office comes up with, we provide information. As I stated earlier, that information could take several forms. It could be information, it could be a recommendation, or it could be a flight ban.

[Soraya Martinez Ferrada, Liberal, Hochelaga, QC]

Thank you.

Minister Alghabra, from what I understand, we want to make our airways safer and to prevent another tragedy like the one Canadians have suffered.

Apart from the safer skies initiative, what can we do to make commercial flights safer?

How can we establish communication among governments? How can we work internationally to make commercial flights safer?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Transport Canada is leading two global initiatives that bring partners together to broaden the global civil aviation system awareness of conflict zone risks, risk management and best practices to enhance international dialogue and strengthen information-sharing policies. We created the safer skies consultative committee and the safer skies forum.

Canada also created a safer skies commitment statement, where signatories pledged to take key actions with respect to conflict zone risk mitigation. To date, 19 countries and four industry organizations have endorsed this statement. That is significant progress to keep our skies and global skies safer.