Transport Committee on May 13th, 2021

[Soraya Martinez Ferrada, Liberal, Hochelaga, QC]

Minister Alghabra, are there currently any bans on flights over certain conflict zones? You briefly discussed that earlier. Can you tell us more about the important work being done to ensure air safety in conflict zones?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

As I stated in an earlier response, currently we have a NOTAM or a ban on flights over a segment of Ukraine because of the heightened tension that exists at the border because of Russian military activity. There are other conflict zones that we are regularly monitoring. I'll just name some countries: North Korea, Syria, Libya, Saudi Arabia and a few other countries. We're constantly monitoring the entire globe but certainly have conflict zones that we provide additional attention to. I should add Iran as well. Iran and Iraq are on that list.

[Soraya Martinez Ferrada, Liberal, Hochelaga, QC]

I'll be brief.

My question is for Minister Garneau.

Minister Garneau, you held the position of Minister of Transport until quite recently and are now Minister of Foreign Affairs.

I listened closely to what you said earlier. You spoke very passionately about your intention to shed light on this tragedy and to ensure Canadians get the answers they deserve.

How will you go about that effort to shed light on this tragedy and to get the answers Canadians deserve?

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

Thank you for your question.

I'll go about it simply by following a process, without however taking my foot off the gas, as it were.

We absolutely have to keep pressuring Iran to give us the answers. We have various mechanisms at our disposal for that purpose, and we won't give up until we have those answers.

If the normal processes we follow to get those answers aren't enough, we'll exercise other options. For the moment, we're trying to work through internationally established procedures. We will continue to focus completely on this matter.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Minister Garneau.

Thank you, Ms. Martinez Ferrada.

I want to express my sincere appreciation to both ministers on behalf of the committee. You both went 20 minutes over your time. You gave us a bit of extra time and we very much appreciate it. It got us through two rounds.

To all members, those were great interventions. It was wonderful to hear from each and every one of you.

With that, we are going to let the ministers go. We're now going to suspend for three to five minutes because we have to do some sound checks. I'll let the clerk take care of that. Once again, we'll suspend for that amount of time.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

To start us off for six minutes, Mr. Kram, you have the floor.

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for joining us today.

My questions will be about the safer skies strategy that the ministers talked about in the previous hour. I think that people of all political stripes can agree that preventing passenger airliners from being shot out of the sky is a good thing and a public policy worth pursuing. I was wondering if the witnesses could tell the committee whether they believe that flying internationally over conflict zones is safer today than it was a few years ago, and why or why not.

[Kevin Brosseau, Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport]

It's a difficult question to answer because of the dynamic nature of conflict zones and international safety, but I will say a few things.

Post-MH17, the Dutch did a significant amount of work and made progress in relation to ensuring the safety of international civil aviation. As well, the ICAO has changed a number of its standards and recommended practices related to the manner in which conflict zones are managed and assessed by airlines and by countries. That was the big impetus to the safer skies initiative and why Canada seized the moment to build on the great work by the Dutch after their tragedy to build on international co-operation, to share information, to share intelligence, so that properly informed risk assessments are made so that, in fact, airlines are aware of and stay away from dangerous air zones.

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Are the new safer skies strategy and the new foreign conflict zone office fully up and running, or is that yet to be done?

[Kevin Brosseau]

The conflict zone information office at Transport Canada is up and running. It started up over the course of the summer, so it's almost coming up on a year. That's staffed with experts here in Transport Canada, who monitor the air zones 24-7 and exchange information with international and domestic partners.

As well, the safer skies initiative is moving and making progress. Minister Alghabra and Minister Garneau mentioned the safer skies forum in December, where we brought together 90 countries, about 400 representatives from around the world, looking at how we unpack the manner in which countries interact, share information and break down barriers of information sharing so that we are levelling the playing field for all countries and all airlines around the world.

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Okay.

In the last few days, I've seen in the news that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is heating up. The Israelis are launching rockets at the Palestinians. The Palestinians are launching rockets at the Israelis.

I went to expedia.ca before this meeting and I looked up flights from Toronto Pearson to Tel Aviv, and there are all sorts of flight options to fly from Toronto into Israel right now. Shouldn't the safer skies strategy have alarm bells of some sort going off to stop passenger airliners from flying into areas where there are rockets being launched?

[Kevin Brosseau]

Certainly, it is a very dynamic situation going on currently in Israel. I don't want to speak too much about a current active environment. The conflict zone information office is actively monitoring that, engaging in regular conversation with Air Canada, our only carrier that flies into Tel Aviv, as well as with other regulators—international regulators such as the FAA and other regulators—to ensure that the measures being taken by the state, by Israel, are sufficient so that we're assured of aviation safety. We will monitor that. We're monitoring it continually, and we'll adjust as necessary.

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

I can understand that the Government of Canada can stop Canadian airlines from flying direct into a conflict zone. If a Canadian who doesn't know about this conflict could change planes in New York or Europe or somewhere, how does the Government of Canada co-operate with other countries and other airlines to stop Canadians from catching connecting flights and going into a war zone unsafely?

[Kevin Brosseau]

It's an important element of the work that safer skies and the conflict zone information office do in working with other authorities such as the FAA and the states of those airlines that you mentioned, Mr. Kram, so that information is shared and people are on a level playing field to be able to make decisions about their own risk assessments and carry out their own risk assessments with respect to the safety of flying into Tel Aviv, for instance, and flying out.

As we've seen over the course of the last few days, there have been periods of time when the airport has been closed and then reopened, so again, it's a highly dynamic situation. It speaks to the importance of international co-operation so that Canadian operators are aware. However, we're also playing a role to ensure that other states are properly informed.

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Finally, and quickly, the Government of Canada has a travel advice and advisories web page at travel.gc.ca.

If Canadians are looking to travel abroad, will the aviation safety advisories about dangerous conflict zones make their way to travel.gc.ca?

[Kevin Brosseau]

I will start the answer and then turn to my colleague at Global Affairs.

We're in very close contact with Global Affairs regularly to ensure that the proper advice is being given to Canadians through the GAC travel advisories. Let me turn it over to my colleague Ms. McCardell.

[Sandra McCardell, Assistant Deputy Minister, Europe, Arctic, Middle East and Maghreb, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development]

I will turn to Brian Szwarc, who is the head of our consular department. He can speak to the travel advisory program.

[Brian Szwarc, Director General, Consular Operations, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development]

Global Affairs does maintain up-to-date travel advisories for most countries throughout the world, both where we are represented and where we are not.

As to the information and question raised regarding the safer skies initiative and active conflict zones, we will need to explore this to make sure we are including all of the developments. However, when there are developments that can impact the safety and security of Canadians, we update the travel advisories. We do so very frequently—daily—as the information is presented to us.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Mr. Szwarc, Ms. McCardell, Mr. Brosseau and Mr. Kram. Well done.

We'll now move to the Liberals. We have with us Mr. El-Khoury.

Mr. El-Khoury, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Fayçal El-Khoury, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Welcome to all our witnesses and guests.

My question is for Mr. Szwarc, from the Department of Foreign Affairs. Canada took the lead in establishing the international coordination and response group for the victims of flight PS752.

Would you please tell us more about that group and Canada's leadership within it?

[Brian Szwarc]

I'll ask my colleague Sandra McCardell to respond to that question.

[Sandra McCardell]

I'll be pleased to answer.

Yes, as Minister Garneau noted, shortly after the flight PS752 tragedy, Canada began to organize a group of countries whose citizens had died in the crash. We promptly communicated with the United Kingdom, Ukraine, Sweden and Afghanistan so we could work together to get answers regarding the tragedy that had occurred in the sky above Tehran.

In the following days, we organized an initial meeting at the ministerial level in London and began a coordination process. We were assisted in that effort by the presence and advice of the Dutch minister, who had experienced a similar tragedy when flight MH17 crashed in Ukraine. Right from the start, we established a form of organization that is still in place today. The group's legal subcommittee is coordinating the introduction of a negotiation process ultimately designed to secure reparations from Iran.

So Canada has put itself forward from the start. We had the largest number of victims, consisting of citizens, permanent residents and family members with ties to Canada. We took on the role of leader, we put ourselves out there, and we continue to do so.

[Fayçal El-Khoury, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Thank you.

My second question is for Ms. Cameron.

Welcome to the committee, Ms. Cameron. It's a pleasure to see you again. The last time we saw each other, I believe, was in Lebanon, in Beirut.

Since January 2020, Canada has mobilized its allies and international partners to hold Iran responsible for its acts.

What steps has Canada taken nationally and internationally?

Could you please tell us about Canada's interactions with the other countries on these matters?

[Sandra McCardell]

You asked Ms. Cameron the question, but I can start.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Yes, go ahead.