Transport Committee on Aug. 19th, 2022

[George Chahal, Liberal, Calgary Skyview, AB]

—and that we should continue having masking as a protection for folks who are travelling?

[Jennifer Lutfallah]

According to the advice that has been.... I'm sorry, but I'm getting a lot of feedback. Can you hear me?

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

We can. Unfortunately, there isn't time left, however, for the response.

[Jennifer Lutfallah]

I'm sorry.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

No, that's okay.

Thank you, Mr. Chahal.

Mr. Barsalou‑Duval, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Keenan, I imagine that data is compiled on ArriveCAN app use. You mentioned that 97% or 99% of people use it.

Do you also compile data on bugs, issues and the nature of those bugs and issues? Do you have any data indicating whether those issues are being resolved, how much time that takes and the impact of those issues?

If those data do exist, I think it would be appropriate to forward them to the committee.

[Michael Keenan]

I'm going to let my Canadian Border Services Agency colleague answer that question.

[Denis Vinette]

Thank you for your question, sir.

Since the app was first released, it has gone through more than 80 versions to improve its usability and reflect public safety measures, which change with the various orders made.

We always ensure we conduct checks and tests with Google and Apple so everything is in order before the app is updated and made available to travellers.

We've kept a set of logs of issues that needed to be corrected following updates or recommendations regarding the app's usability.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

I just want to confirm what you're telling me, Mr. Vinette. There have been 80 versions of the app as a result of changes in government policies or bugs that have been detected.

Is that correct?

[Denis Vinette]

That's correct.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

So you can't give us any figures or data. I think it would be useful for us to have them. Then we could determine, for example, whether there were 1,000 bugs at the start and 5 bugs in August.

Can you estimate that? Do you have any data on it?

[Denis Vinette]

I don't have any data with me. According to the most recent numbers reported in the media, one bug affected roughly 10,000 persons who used an Apple phone from June 28 to July 20.

It took six days to correct that problem. The individuals concerned received emails directing them to quarantine. We identified those cases and forwarded the information to our friends at the Public Health Agency of Canada, or PHAC, which contacted the people affected. So that situation has since been corrected.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

People also tell us they're told they face $5,000 fines if they fail to comply with the directive. Earlier we saw that a directive has been introduced under which that fine would not necessarily be imposed for a first offence.

Do you have any information on the number and amounts of fines that have been assessed?

[Denis Vinette]

I'm going to ask my colleague Ms. Lutfallah to discuss fines.

However, I can tell you that we're collecting implementation information that should have been forwarded through ArriveCAN. People aren't required to quarantine for 14 days for failing to submit their information via the ArriveCAN app. According to the data we have, 80% to 90% of people who have been informed that they are required to use the app will do so on their next trip.

[Jennifer Lutfallah]

In terms of non-compliance with ArriveCAN and the potential monetary penalties that could be imposed on individuals, I want to point our that our officers at the airports as well as land borders try to bring people into compliance rather than writing a ticket as a first measure. We're playing a much more facilitative role. A ticket is not the first option that is exercised by our officers to bring compliance with the ArriveCAN app.

Since the inception or since ArriveCAN was made mandatory for both land and air—I think it was in 2020 for air and 2021 for land—there have been only 190 tickets with respect to ArriveCAN non-compliance. In those cases—and they're very limited cases when you consider the overall number of travellers coming into our country—those individuals are repeat offenders or simply will not comply with giving us a paper submission, which we offer when they are referred over to PHAC, or they just don't want to comply with the public health measures.

I want to underscore that the number of tickets that have been issued for ArriveCAN non-compliance is extremely low, because our officers play a very facilitative role. Generally, they are very successful in bringing people back into compliance with the law.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you.

My next question is for Mr. Vinette, but it could also be directed to another witness.

When quarantines were made mandatory during the pandemic, there were many questions and much indignation about the way follow‑up was done, and even whether follow‑up was in fact being conducted because some people observed that it was not.

I'd like to know whether quarantine verification is still in effect. If so, how is it being done?

[Denis Vinette]

That's a question for my colleague Ms. Lutfallah.

[Jennifer Lutfallah]

There's a multipronged approach that's being used for quarantine follow-up. Quarantine is generally applied for individuals who are unvaccinated or deemed unvaccinated because they were unable to provide us vaccine credentials.

We at the Public Health Agency have an escalation protocol, if you want to call it that, where we will start with phone calls. There will be reminders sent through ArriveCAN to remind individuals of their quarantine as well as their testing obligations. We also have callers who will contact these individuals directly to make sure they maintain their compliance with their quarantine requirements. These callers will also call individuals who test positive to ensure that they meet the isolation requirements—

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Ms. Lutfallah. Unfortunately, I'm going to have to cut you off there.

Thank you very much, Mr. Barsalou‑Duval.

Next we have Mr. Bachrach.

Mr. Bachrach, the floor is yours. You have six minutes.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to begin my questioning with the officials who are here from CATSA. At past meetings, I've asked about the summer attendance incentive program, which is a program that CATSA's contractors have put in place using public money to offer a financial incentive to screening officers and other CATSA employees who don't take their booked summer holidays and don't take any sick time over the summer months.

In my past questioning, the response from CATSA has been that this was put in place to address absenteeism. I wonder if the officials from CATSA could define absenteeism for me.

[Mike Saunders, President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Air Transport Security Authority]

Thank you very much for the question.

I'll make one clarification. The incentive program was not offered to CATSA employees; it was offered to the screening contractors, to the screening officers across the country.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Sure, that's fair enough, but these employees wear CATSA badges on their shoulders, so you'll forgive me if we conflate the two. These are employees working for CATSA contractors, and this program uses public money through CATSA in order to provide the incentive to address absenteeism.

How do you define absenteeism?

[Mike Saunders]

Absenteeism is.... Actually, I think I would defer to my colleague Neil Parry to define absenteeism as per this program. I believe he's responded to you, not on that particular element of this program but on other elements of it.

[Neil Parry, Vice-President, Operations, Canadian Air Transport Security Authority]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'd be happy to respond to that.

There are different types of absenteeism, and I'll make a clarification, as I did at my last appearance, of what the incentive is intended to achieve. We want to incent screening officers to come into work for their scheduled shift when they are not sick and when they are not on vacation.

There are different types of absenteeism, as you point out. There's absenteeism when you're sick, and we trust our screening officers to act professionally, as they've done throughout the pandemic, and not come to work when they're sick. They demonstrated for over two years during the pandemic that they would stay home and be responsible.

When they have planned vacation, we encourage them to take it because, as you've talked about for almost two hours now, it is an extremely busy environment, and they have done a noble job under these circumstances, under these pressures.

However, there is the occurrence from time to time at different locations where, for a scheduled shift, there is something called book-offs. We're trying to reduce that by offering our contractors the opportunity to bill us for their programs. Those programs allow that, if you are sick for a couple of days, you are not disqualified from the incentive program. For the further weeks throughout the summer, you can earn up to $200 per cycle for coming in for your scheduled shift.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Parry, what you've just said contradicts the documents that we've seen from CATSA contractors, which very clearly indicate that, if workers take sick time, they are disqualified from receiving the bonus for the week in which they took that time.

Are you aware of this?