Transport Committee on Jan. 12th, 2023

[Len Corrado]

Clearly, we don't want any passenger ever waiting in a hotel or ever delayed. Unfortunately, as the situation evolved, and with the various challenges of weather, infrastructure and the ability to respond to those, the delays were knocked on and ran for quite a while.

The answer is, we never want one of our passengers delayed. Unfortunately, once the delays started to happen, as you've heard from my colleagues, with airplanes out of rotation everywhere, limited subservice availability and the holiday season, recovery became difficult, but we did everything possible both to repatriate passengers as quickly as possible, but also to make sure they were taken care of in destination—again, regardless of the reason for delay.

[Annie Koutrakis, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Besides reimbursing expenses, what kind of compensation do you think is appropriate for those who had holiday plans ruined due to Sunwing's poor service over the holidays? Do you think this should be determined so that the compensation is consistent and fair for all of those who were affected?

[Len Corrado]

I think that compensation is well defined in Canada's APPR, in the regulation. Sunwing fully intends to comply with all of our obligations under that regulation.

As I've stated previously, we've done all possible to take care of passengers in destination, making sure they have hotel accommodation—food, beverage—and additional local support was provided.

[Annie Koutrakis, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Thank you for that.

If I may go back to my initial question, I'm not sure that you touched upon whether or not Sunwing has a policy. Obviously, everybody knows that it's never the intention that passengers receive services less than par, but do you have a policy in that regard?

[Len Corrado]

I'm not sure I understand the question. A policy to recover passengers...?

[Annie Koutrakis, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Well, what is your policy? How long is it okay for passengers to be stranded in hotel lobbies and airports? What is the time frame that is—

[Len Corrado]

Zero: Zero is acceptable, because clearly I need to get the airplanes continuing their rotation so that other passengers can continue on their trip. We don't plan extensive delays. It's not feasible and it just doesn't make any sense.

[Annie Koutrakis, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Finally, I truly appreciate that you apologized to Canadians who received poor service from your company, but the sincerity of that apology is best judged by the actions you take afterward. I'm sure you will agree.

What actions are you taking to ensure this does not happen again? Please be as specific as possible. That is what Canadians are expecting from us today, so I think that being as detailed as possible in your response is the way to go.

[Len Corrado]

We will continue to meet all of our APPR—the regulations, the regulatory requirements—as stated previously. We have actively looked to reduce our schedule for the remaining season to ensure we have more slack in the schedule.

We've undertaken enhancements and a review of our communications system to ensure we have a more open line of communication and there is less opportunity for failure, and we will continue to focus on our business, as we have done for 20 years of making vacation dreams come true for people.

[Annie Koutrakis, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

What are the lessons learned, would you say, Mr. Corrado? What are you and your team doing as we speak right now? Since this happened, in the next second what happened, and what are you doing to ensure this doesn't happen again?

[Len Corrado]

I think that as I've mentioned we're pulling down our schedule in order to give ourselves more slack in the schedule, so that if we have additional weather events or infrastructure events we have more ability to respond. As well, we've already made actual changes to our communication tools.

[Annie Koutrakis, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

I'd ask WestJet and Air Canada to chime in on some of the questions that I asked of Mr. Corrado.

Do you have policies as to how much is an acceptable length of time that passengers can be stranded in hotel lobbies or airports? Is this something that you look at when you're putting your policies in place for superior client service?

[Andrew Gibbons]

There's no acceptable time for our guests to be stranded anywhere. There's no acceptable time for a Canadian customer to be sleeping on a sidewalk or on a hotel airport floor or anywhere else. That's as unacceptable to us as it is to any member of Parliament or any customer of ours.

[Kevin O'Connor]

From Air Canada, I would say it's exactly the same, and we don't spare any expense. Whether we have to send in a rescue aircraft or put customers on other airlines, we will do whatever it takes within our...with whatever we can do. So we don't have the exact timeline, but nothing is acceptable, and no expense will be spared.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Ms. Koutrakis.

We now go to you, Ms. Vignola, for six minutes.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Gentlemen, I thank you for being with us. You know full well, I'm sure, that the committee is not meeting today to find fault with your response to the storm. You don't control the weather, any more than I do, although we all wish we could control it a little.

It's really the customer service that's the problem.

In the case of Sunwing, we're talking about people having to wait for seven hours on a plane, without adequate food, when section 8 of the Air Passenger Protection Regulations requires that when a delay lasts more than three hours, passengers must be allowed to disembark the aircraft.

There are also stories of people being stuck in airports and having to sleep on chairs, which is not the worst, or on the floor. Also, people couldn't get through to the line to find out what was going on and lacked information, even though the regulations call for updates to be given to passengers every 30 minutes.

These are the things we are discussing, because they are your responsibility. The point here is to find, not culprits, but viable solutions for everyone. That was the point I wanted to make.

Mr. Corrado, from Sunwing, I'll start with you. How will you ensure that people are never again stuck on a plane for seven hours on the tarmac, and that section 8 of the Air Passenger Protection Regulations is respected at all times, regardless of the conditions?

[Len Corrado]

I'm unfortunately not in a position to comment specifically on the event. We are well aware of what the tarmac delay limitations are and have a very robust policy on how we manage that. Without knowing the specifics, I can't comment on that. Clearly that is not in the interests of the operation. It's not a good outcome for our crews either.

Without understanding all of the dynamics of that situation, I can't comment on it, other than to say that we understand what our obligations are under regulation. We have a robust policy to ensure tarmac delays are managed, including an emergency snack kit on board our airplanes for those situations where we can't avoid them, but we understand our obligations and do all possible to comply with that.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you very much.

You mentioned in your opening remarks that many of Sunwing's trips were organized by travel agencies or independent travel agents. It was brought to my attention that these agents' commissions were not going to be paid to them by Sunwing, despite the fact that they had done their job well, that is by selling the trip, and even offered customer support afterwards.

Is it common policy for your company not to pay people who sell your packages and continue to provide services even in situations where the flight is cancelled?

[Len Corrado]

Ms. Vignola, I think my colleague Andy Dawson is best to respond to that. I'll leave that question for him to respond to.

[Andrew Dawson, President of Tour Operations, Sunwing Travel Group, Sunwing Airlines]

Good morning.

It is common practice within the industry to only pay commission on completed trips. We very much sympathize with our partners that were unable to receive a commission in these cases. We have lots of incentives and other schemes to reward agents, and we will look at ways to make them whole and to work with us in the future, but it is an industry practice, yes.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Indeed, this would be important. Most independent agents are women and this is their only income. Let's say it's highly damaging that people do their work without receiving compensation. We would like these people to be compensated.

Mr. Rheault, as I said at the beginning, no carrier can be reasonably held responsible for a weather bomb affecting all of Canada, that is clear. However, we are not here today to talk about the weather, but to talk about the resources and information that Air Canada passengers want to have access to.

How are you going to organize things so that there are no more inordinate wait times? People try to call agents, but there is no answer or even an offer of a return call or an answering machine. People are on hold. They have to wait for hours in line at the airport to get answers. How are you going to ensure that customer service in emergencies or crises is adequate and better planned?

[David Rheault]

Thank you for your question.

As I mentioned in my remarks, we have no financial obligation, but we obviously have an obligation to communicate with passengers, provide information and “reprotect” them. We are sorry for the passengers who had to wait to be “reprotected”, and we sincerely apologize.

The difficult thing about these situations is that they create an influx of calls that are all redirected at the same time to the call centres, which increases waiting times. I can tell you that we have made sure to offer employees overtime and many have volunteered. We have more employees than we had in 2019, but we will continue to review our practices. We will continue to hire people to improve that part of our service. Still...

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Rheault. Unfortunately, that is all the time you had.

Ms. Vignola, I can confirm that the Association of Canadian Travel Agencies has requested to appear at our next meeting.

Next, we have Mr. Bachrach.

Mr. Bachrach, the floor is yours. You have six minutes.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all our witnesses for appearing before us today to answer our questions.

I want to start by trying to channel the dismay, the frustration and the anger of hundreds of Canadian passengers who were stuck over the holidays because of the incidents that we've been talking about already at this meeting. Among those groups, I don't think there's a group that feels more frustrated and more angry than the passengers of Sunwing, who were stranded in international destinations for days.

I want to set the stage by reading for you the same email that I read at our last meeting and then directing some questions to Mr. Corrado from Sunwing. This is from the mother of a Sunwing customer stranded in Puerto Vallarta.

She writes, “He is getting no reliable information from Sunwing as to how long this may last. Every day he has to check out of the hotel and wait in the lobby to see if he is included in the passenger list that will be provided a room for the next night. He is frantic. From my end, I have made countless phone calls to Sunwing and have not been able to talk to anyone. There is no reliable information and no communication from Sunwing representatives. He cannot afford to book a return flight with another airline and then fight with Sunwing to get his money back. I know there are certain rights he has, but they seem to be difficult to access and our government does not seem interested in their constituents' dilemmas. He is not alone, there are hundreds of Canadians in the same situation. Something has to be done for these people. I am a senior on pensions that are very limited. I cannot afford to fly him home....”

Well, she did end up flying him home on another airline, at their own expense. At the end of all of this, Sunwing has offered this family $150.

My first question is for Mr. Corrado.

I appreciate that it is in addition to paying for the expenses that were incurred, but why $150?

[Len Corrado]

First of all, as you read that detail.... I'm a father as well. That's a story that tugs at one's heart. I don't know the specifics of that story today, but as a parent, as a Canadian, that's a story that's unacceptable.

Without understanding the specifics of this, I can't comment on the $150. What I can tell you is that if the flight falls within our APPR obligations, all of those obligations are being met. What I can tell you is that we had representation in destinations. We paid for hotel, food, beverages, and we had people supporting in destination. If we failed specific to this, again, without understanding the specifics, I can't comment.

We were fully committed to doing all possible to support passengers who did not depart as planned. We're sorry for this, and we've spoken about the various reasons, but we will do right by our passengers as per regulation, and we've done right by our passengers in destination.