Transport Committee on Feb. 2nd, 2026

[Geoffrey Wood]

From our perspective, the signs are there. We're not in the investigative world or in the law enforcement world, but the signs of organized crime being behind and infiltrating our industry are pretty clear to us. The questions are, how do we resource the enforcement officials properly, and how do we make sure that everybody is going into this with eyes wide open? That's unfortunately what we're dealing with.

You've seen the levels of violence increasing exponentially, particularly in the greater Toronto area. The response to that needs to be immediate, and it needs to be sustained. We can't let our foot off the throttle. We cannot. If we don't get control of this, we're in some serious trouble.

We want to work with this committee. I think you have the opportunity. We've talked about a lot of things. This is the next phase of that. It is supercritical to have it as a recommendation that we go into this with eyes wide open and that the committee understand what the trucking industry in 2026 looks like. We basically have a major crisis on our hands, and we need to throw everything at it—everything.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

A little earlier, Mr. Earle said how important it is that businesses be transparent. I think associations should be too. I'm the one saying this. The Driver Inc. lobby group, the Canadian Trucking Association, or CTA, which you must be familiar with, has refused to provide us with its list of members. Its claims seem very favourable. According to CTA representatives, there's no problem in the industry, and no one is abusing workers. They say that the Driver Inc. model is a perfectly acceptable way to operate.

Since we have no information on the CTA's board of directors, who its president is or who its members are, do you think we should be wary of those statements? They aren't being transparent.

My question is for anyone who would like to respond.

[Mark Bylsma]

I'll speak to that briefly.

Mr. Kelloway mentioned in the previous session that this was about safety and economics. I think one other piece was missed, and that's the rule of law. It's about safety. It's about economics. It's about the rule of law. There's an incredible lack of rule of law today.

We don't need a lot of new regulations. I mentioned it earlier. We don't need new regulations as much as we need harmonization, support and funding for the different levels or departments to crack down. Geoff mentioned it earlier, too. If we have multiple departments at the scales, that will help crack down on this. It's not just about T4As. It's about safety, and it's about criminality.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Bylsma.

Thank you, Mr. Barsalou‑Duval.

We'll go to Mr. Albas.

Mr. Albas, the floor is yours for five minutes, sir.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Okanagan Lake West—South Kelowna, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all our witnesses for being here.

I'd like to start with Mr. Earle.

Mr. Earle, I'm quoting from a Vancouver Sun article from about five months ago:

A new trucking firm in B.C. has links to Chohan Freight Forwarders Ltd., a company the province shut down after it was involved in multiple overpass crashes, a Postmedia News examination has found.

It's unclear whether Legacy Pathways Ltd.'s links to the former company violate B.C. Motor Vehicle Act regulations, but the Transportation Ministry said its commercial vehicle safety enforcement branch “is aware of concerns regarding Legacy Pathways Ltd. and is investigating.”

The province's rules stipulate that when a trucking firm's National Safety Code certificate—

I think they mean safety fitness certificate.

—which allows it to operate, has been cancelled for cause, the company and its directors and officers will be refused a new safety certificate. Companies can apply for reinstatement after three years.

Mr. Earle, this is a B.C. company. It has a regulatory authority's enforcement put upon it. Their safety fitness certificate was cancelled, and like a phoenix, they rise up again. The only reason we have this is that it was reported, but they could easily come as an Alberta or an Ontario trucking firm as well, could they not?

[Dave Earle]

Yes, and this is the exact issue we've been talking about. That's the exact circumstance when we talked about moving assets out of the province and starting to move them into a different province. The only reason our enforcement agency knew about this is that we track assets. We track vehicle identification numbers. Even with that, when you have multiple jurisdictions across countries, you can just move different assets and can go back and forth.

Unless there is a clear and compelling, transparent national system to track beneficial ownership and directors, this becomes almost impossible to detect.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Okanagan Lake West—South Kelowna, BC]

Do you think it should be tied to the safety fitness certificate for anyone who applies for it?

[Dave Earle]

Absolutely.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Okanagan Lake West—South Kelowna, BC]

What about trucking schools? As we've heard, in Ontario 66 of them were shut down. Five or so were just closed in Alberta in the last six months. Could they not just simply do the same?

[Dave Earle]

Exactly the same thing is happening in British Columbia. Before mandatory entry-level training, we had about 30 to 35 schools. Once that came in, we had 105 because all of a sudden there was money. Now, over time, the Insurance Corporation of British Columbia, which is the licensing authority, shut down 67 of them.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Okanagan Lake West—South Kelowna, BC]

It shut down 67.

[Dave Earle]

It shut down 67, but we're back up to 100.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Okanagan Lake West—South Kelowna, BC]

How—

[Dave Earle]

It's this cycle. This is what we're saying is the problem. It's when there is this “we shut it down and it opens up over here” and “we shut it down and it opens up over here”. It's the same people.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Okanagan Lake West—South Kelowna, BC]

Again, it's the real-time verification that's the matter here. With all due respect to what Mr. Greaves said earlier about the CRA, that's a lagging indicator. The enforcement comes years after they've audited and found discrepancies. We need to have something that is much more tactile and up to date. Is that correct?

[Dave Earle]

We need both. We need the tactile and up-to-date things. However, make no mistake, the fear of the agency is real, and that's something that's very important.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Okanagan Lake West—South Kelowna, BC]

I'm all for the CRA enforcing the law. I should also note that it was the election call by the Prime Minister in early spring that caused the bill to which you're all referring to die, and now we're only getting it through the BIA, which we are working on right now at the finance committee.

I have one last quick question.

You mentioned eight years of both governments. I assume you mean the Eby government. Maybe you could indicate to us what you've been saying to the Eby government and whether or not it has been.... Right now the federal government allows it to have complete enforcement of extraprovincial rules.

[Dave Earle]

Yes. My first briefing in this role was with Premier Eby when he was the attorney general. It was interesting in that we got about five minutes in when he stopped and said, “You're with the business association, and you're asking for more regulatory oversight.” I said, “Yes.” That should tell you all you need to know, that I'm here—

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Okanagan Lake West—South Kelowna, BC]

Have they done that, though, sir? Are we still getting a satisfactory-unaudited?

[Dave Earle]

We still have that category of satisfactory-unaudited. We still have the under-resourcing of inspection facilities. We still have scale shacks that aren't staffed. In British Columbia, we still have all the usual things—and “usual“ is a terrible word to use, but it's true—for enforcement that we see in other provinces. Has there been action? There's been a little bit. Do we need more? Absolutely.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Okanagan Lake West—South Kelowna, BC]

Let's talk about dangerous goods. Do you think companies that hire people who have 10 years of experience should be able to qualify under a different program? I think it's Canada Clean Fuels that has suggested it's unfair for them to invest so heavily in their drivers and then have the same insurance costs as everyone else.

[Dave Earle]

Yes, there's a better way to do it. The one thing about years of experience, though, is that you have to ask yourself whether they have 10 years of experience or one year of experience 10 times?

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Okanagan Lake West—South Kelowna, BC]

That's fair enough.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Earle.

Thank you, Mr. Albas.

Next we'll go to Mr. Kelloway.

Mr. Kelloway, the floor is yours for five minutes, sir.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Sydney—Glace Bay, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate it.

It's good to see the three of you here today.

I appreciate a lot of the comments here that it's not just a T4A issue, and that the branches of that tree are many.

I'd like to hear each of your perspectives. There are so many different impacts with regard to this study. There's the security. There's the personal. There's a whole host of things. There's also the economic impact, and I kind of want to land on that.

When it comes to the economic impact to the sector in Ontario and in British Columbia, you must have a quantifiable or best guess of how much this—the lack of enforcement, the Driver Inc. model, etc.—is costing the industry. Do you have a definite number or an estimate of what it costs Ontario and B.C. in terms of the sector?