Transport Committee on Feb. 2nd, 2026

[Geoffrey Wood]

Again, a lot has been accomplished at the federal level, but I think that, if we want to look at this, it has to evolve. ESDC and CRA have to remain engaged in our world. We need to keep our foot on the throttle. We can't let up on this, as these issues will morph as it goes along, and we need to be prepared, as government, to address that as we go forward.

What I think is critical is the municipalities and the province can't do a lot of what we need to do in trucking alone. They need the support of the federal government, from the federal department, certainly. Where it's under provincial jurisdiction, there could be funding allocated to help them achieve those goals to make our roads safer and the industry better and restore law and order. The federal government needs to be there.

[Dan Muys, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook—Brant North, ON]

It has been eight years, and we've moved the needle by how much? How far along the path are we to where we should be?

[Geoffrey Wood]

I would say that, with the T4As and ESDC, we've come a long way. I don't have a measurement, but I can tell you that people are paying attention. It's getting noticed. There are requirements in place. The T4A piece is following the money.

We talked about the criminal side of this issue. Again, there's a federal perspective. The Ministry of Transportation and the Ontario Provincial Police can only go so far, but the RCMP, CBSA and other federal policing can certainly play a role, and they should. The provincial police have told us that. I think, from the federal government's perspective, that's where they can bring necessary change. It's deterrence. If everybody is at the scales and watching, it's more of a deterrent against breaking the rules, if that makes any sense.

[Dan Muys, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook—Brant North, ON]

Yes.

Mr. Earle, who is from B.C., talked about the need for some alignment or a national system of enforcement. What are your thoughts on that from the Ontario perspective? Others, I'm sure, will ask Mr. Earle about that.

[Mark Bylsma]

I think we agree with that.

Certainly, as was mentioned at the previous meeting, it's about information sharing and harmonization among provinces, perhaps managed federally. That information sharing is what's going to allow us to crack down across our nation so that they can't just pop up in the next province a day after they get shut down in another province. Sharing all that information is what's going to help us eradicate this.

To your point earlier, we've seen a start, but we still have to pursue this headlong because it just keeps getting bigger. The snowball just keeps getting bigger.

[Geoffrey Wood]

I would add that the enforcement component needs to be given the tools to do its job. We talked about data sharing in the databases and the information that's there. They don't have the tools right now. I think you heard from CCMTA this morning. There's a lot of really good work happening. We'll get there, but we need to keep our foot on the throttle: We need to support our enforcement. We need boots on the ground, and they need to be supported by technology.

[Dan Muys, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook—Brant North, ON]

You talked about the criminal element in this. This was brought up. Who is running these companies? They set up a new shell company elsewhere. Are you seeing any enforcement on that when it happens in Ontario?

[Geoffrey Wood]

It's starting, but it needs sustained resources.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you.

[Dan Muys, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook—Brant North, ON]

Can you point to examples where that's happened already?

Time is up? The red card means time is up. That's it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

It's a very powerful card, Mr. Wood. It sparks fear in the eyes of members.

Thank you very much, Mr. Muys and Mr. Wood.

Next, we'll go to Mr. Greaves.

Mr. Greaves, the floor is yours. You have six minutes, sir.

[Will Greaves, Liberal, Victoria, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses for being with us this afternoon.

I would like to direct my questions to Mr. Earle.

Welcome, it's great to have a voice from British Columbia at the committee today.

One of the issues we've heard a great deal about from many witnesses and which keeps recurring is around the impacts of the T4A penalty moratorium on the trucking sector. I'm wondering if you could elaborate on that from a B.C. perspective. How did that T4A moratorium affect your sector and safety specifically in the industry within B.C. and elsewhere?

[Dave Earle]

There are two parts to that: how it affected us and what the effect has been since the moratorium has been lifted.

When the requirement to file T4As was taken away, that put a cloak of darkness over what was going on in the industry. Who was paying whom? What was happening? Who was going? Who was running? Where was money flowing? That allowed a lot of money and operations to be hidden. It just facilitates that entire discussion around compliance and regulation. If it's important to be there and it's important to be down, then it needs to be enforced.

Since that T4A moratorium has been lifted, it's not even so much that the moratorium itself and the actual mechanics of it are important, and they are, but the message that was sent has been really important and very powerful. That message is that the federal government is paying attention. They are actually looking. Enforcement is coming. They're going to have to pay attention, and hiding dollars and hiding behind this curtain is no longer going to be tolerated. That message alone has been very important.

[Will Greaves, Liberal, Victoria, BC]

Great.

This past fall, the Minister of Finance announced that budget 2025 would provide $77 million over four years, starting in 2026-27, with ongoing funding of $19.2 million for the CRA, in order to lift this moratorium that you're referring to on penalties on not submitting T4As in the trucking sector.

From your perspective, if budget 2025 was not to pass expeditiously, and these changes were therefore not to actually be implemented, what do you think the implications would be for the trucking sector and corresponding safety in British Columbia or elsewhere in the country?

[Dave Earle]

I don't think it's too strong to say it would be disastrous.

Again, there's more to this than just the actual mechanics of what's being proposed. When I look at budget 2025 and the elements of it, the enforcement of it is very important, but the messaging behind it is even more so. This industry has been left to be in a malaise. We're working with our provincial ministry and the regulators. They do the absolute best with what they have, but their tools are limited. If we talk about Driver Inc. being a branch on a tree, it's a rotten one and there's a whole bunch of other branches that we need to prune.

That's when I look at the provisions of the budget and why it's so important. It is the legislative amendments that allow for information sharing. It is the regulatory amendments that go through for enforcement.

More important than anything else is the message that this is important and it's going to be enforced. If we fail to do that, if we fail to send that message, I'm deeply concerned, as are our members, that not only do we continue to let this happen, it's one more message for those who lie and cheat to say, go ahead because they can't even get this piece passed.

This is just the first step in a very long road and it's a very important one. We're really hopeful as an industry that this comes to pass. It's an incredibly important piece of the puzzle, that's for sure.

[Will Greaves, Liberal, Victoria, BC]

Thank you.

I'll ask Mr. Bylsma or Mr. Wood to comment from an Ontario perspective on whether they agree with that assessment of the significance of not implementing the budget and thus having the T4A moratorium lifted.

[Geoffrey Wood]

It has to happen. That's as blunt as I can be.

If there's any backtracking on it, the legitimate industry will see that as a sign of weakness and that the bad actors will regain control, or at least have more control than they have now. You can't go backwards. Please don't.

[Will Greaves, Liberal, Victoria, BC]

That's very clear. Thank you.

Going back to British Columbia, Mr. Earle, could you speak to the regulation and enforcement of the trucking sector in B.C. and what works well, in your estimation? Is there anything that British Columbia is doing in this sector that would provide a model that could potentially be adopted by other jurisdictions or that demonstrates progress on addressing this issue?

[Dave Earle]

One of the things we've talked about is that coordination among jurisdictions. One of the things British Columbia does with its national safety code certification process is it tracks assets. As a national safety code certificate holder, you have to list your assets and which vehicles are covered in your fleet. That is a record that is kept. When those assets move and show up elsewhere in the NSC system, the question is, what happened?

On a case-by-case basis it doesn't really matter, but what we have seen is companies shut down in British Columbia and simply move operations to another jurisdiction. We found out what happened and we prevented that from happening in B.C. because the national safety code office said, “Wait a minute. You have all these assets—all of them—moving from this company to that one. Who owns this? Why are these assets moving? This doesn't make any sense.” There was an acquisition, and those questions meant that those interactions didn't happen.

Tying those assets, tracking them and seeing where they show up with national safety code certifications is really important. In that circumstance, those assets eventually showed up in Alberta and the company was operating under their Alberta certification in British Columbia.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Earle.

Thank you, Mr. Greaves.

Mr. Barsalou‑Duval, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Earle, I really liked your comments on the importance of businesses being transparent, particularly when it comes to who the real owner is. I don't think that's the road we've taken so far in terms of recommendations and comments.

That said, Mr. Wood, would the Ontario Trucking Association agree that this kind of measure is necessary?

[Geoffrey Wood]

Would we be in agreement with the transparency on the ownership?

Yes, 100%. We call it anti-avoidance and it needs to be properly funded, resourced and put across the country consistently.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Mr. Earle, a Truck News article from January of this year referred to an inspection in Burnaby and the Lower Mainland. It seems that during this inspection, over 56% of the inspected trucks were decommissioned. That's mind-boggling.

Do you think that percentage is representative of what's happening in the industry right now?

[Dave Earle]

I hate to put it this way, but yes and no.

It's yes, in that the inspections they're referring to weren't random. They were actually targeted, so they saw trucks coming and said, “Oh, that one comes over, that one goes past, that one comes over,” and away you go.

The bigger question for me, though—and I think this goes back to our discussion about enforcement—is that British Columbia has a commercial vehicle inspection program that requires every vehicle to be inspected twice a year, every six months. Vehicles are showing up, like dump trucks with rotted-through bottoms and broken steering linkages. These things don't happen in two, three or four weeks or in four months. These things take years to happen, and yet these vehicles are somehow passing inspections a matter of weeks or months before.

They're not being inspected. It's another scam. We have this pernicious culture of cheating that we need to get at. This is where it starts, and it's really important work.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Mr. Harper then briefly raised this point in response to a question Mr. Kelloway asked. He asked him if there were angles that we had not sufficiently covered. I feel like we're opening the door somewhat today to organized crime being involved in these bad practices or the ties that may exist with them.

Mr. Wood or Mr. Bylsma, I'd like to know what you think.

In the trucking industry at the moment, is there a connection to be made between the Driver Inc. scheme and organized crime?

If that connection is made, what could the federal government do to remedy this situation?