Transport Committee on Feb. 2nd, 2026

[Geoffrey Wood]

We do. Again, it's based on very limited data, and then we extrapolate it out. It's significant on a per-driver basis, whether it's a Driver Inc. driver or whether it's somebody who is potentially engaged in forced labour. It's very lucrative from a damage to the supply chain perspective in terms of distorting operating costs. It's significant. If you're looking for a specific number, based on data that we've seen, it's about $40,000 per year, per driver, on the Driver Inc. model where your operating costs are reduced. Unfortunately, and I don't say this lightly, in the forced labour piece, it's about $80,000 per year, per driver. It's substantial.

Again, that's based on data. It starts with WSIB, or workers' compensation, and they indicate whether it's misclassification. That's where our data analysis has started. It's significant. I look at the total scope of companies assessed by WSIB in Ontario, which works out to about 35% to 40% of the fleets that WSIB has gone with. We have freedom of information, so we get this information. We have to be very careful about what we do with it and how we deal with it.

I can tell you that, when you extrapolate the damage, at least what we've seen for the 100 fleets that have had to pay or have been assessed, their ability to manipulate the supply chain in the Canadian context is in the range of about $300 million annually. This is manipulation of the cost structure, and if you translate that into the U.S. space, it's about $330 million U.S.

You asked about the damage, so you're asking us to also recreate a criminal's balance sheet, which is very difficult to do.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Sydney—Glace Bay, NS]

I appreciate that.

[Geoffrey Wood]

It's substantial. When you extrapolate that to the scope of.... When we talk about the money, that's what a lot of these organizations are chasing. It's easy money, and they'll go for it any day, all day.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Sydney—Glace Bay, NS]

Right.

Mr. Earle, would you like to comment on this?

[Dave Earle]

When I look at that, it's the best data we're going to have on that element. The other element that's very tough to get into is to follow through on the rest of the industry. We're talking about road safety. We're talking about the pain and misery caused by incidents. We're talking about all those things and what everybody else has to do to try to compete.

We talk about those hard costs, and again, you get into the extrapolations, and we're into many billions of dollars.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Sydney—Glace Bay, NS]

Thank you.

Go ahead, Mr. Bylsma.

[Mark Bylsma]

Our membership is made up of companies of many different sizes. Some people have 10 trucks; some people have 1,000 trucks. Spring Creek Carriers, who I was here representing in the fall, have just over 40 trucks. I've done the math, and it would add 10% to our bottom line if I converted to a Driver Inc. model, just to see what my competitive disadvantage is. That's 10% in an industry where we have razor-thin margins. That's the difference between making a lot of money and losing a lot of money. From an economic perspective, that's just from one small company.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Sydney—Glace Bay, NS]

Thank you for that. I wanted to get that on the record.

I know you're not law enforcement, but you mentioned the bad actors that are out there. Is it safe to say, based on your observations—I'm being careful how I word this—that it's mostly the same bad actors, based on your experiences in your own neck of the woods? Is it the same people understanding how the system works or doesn't work and consistently breaking that?

I know that's a tough one, but I'm asking based on your experience.

[Geoffrey Wood]

I would say it's anybody in that 30% to 40% of the market that can figure out how to make it work. It's significant, and the level of criminality progresses.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Kelloway.

Mr. Barsalou‑Duval, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Wood, in your opening remarks, you said you had concerns about the government's procurement system, particularly as it relates to Crown corporations. We can think of Canada Post, but also of various departments that would need transportation and trucking services. In fact, we passed a resolution last week to have Canada Post representatives come and testify before this committee.

What are your concerns? What do you think needs to change?

[Geoffrey Wood]

The government procures a lot of transportation services. They offer a lot of revenue opportunities to the industry. One of the things that we think needs to happen, particularly in Crown corporations, because they're supposed to be holding up the values of what our country is about, is we need to do the labour compliance checks in the tendering process and the contracting process to make sure they're not using Driver Inc., and especially to make sure they're not using forced labour. These are significant concerns.

Those two checks, I suggest, are no-brainers to us. We don't understand why those are not happening. We also don't understand the types of responses we get when we ask these questions.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

My next question still relates to Employment and Social Development Canada, whose budget has been increased.

We documented the fines and penalties issued by Employment and Social Development Canada, and we found that the vast majority of them do not get paid.

Do you have any suggestions to prevent this situation from happening again? The companies don't pay the fines, and the fines disappear.

What impact can Employment and Social Development Canada's presence have?

Is there a solution to this?

[Geoffrey Wood]

If you mean with respect to not paying fines for traffic violations or collisions, let's use this analogy. If you do the crime, you have to do the time, or you have to pay. I think it's important, and again, this goes back to the data sharing and mechanisms. If you don't have the stick or if the mechanisms aren't there to penalize people who are doing things the wrong way and that includes.... You have significant levers, and I'm happy to explore them further with you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you, Mr. Wood.

Thank you, Mr. Barsalou‑Duval.

Mr. Groleau, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Jason Groleau, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon, esteemed guests.

Mr. Bylsma, you're the president of the Ontario Trucking Association.

In Quebec, the people of Beauce are very concerned about the training provided at certain driving schools in Ontario. We saw the report on Marketplace about the drivers who get their driver's licence in under 24 hours. Do you think that's reasonable?

How long would it take to provide adequate training?

[Mark Bylsma]

That should not be normal, no. Throughout Ontario, we have mandatory entry-level training. Other provinces adopted it later. I think Mr. Earle mentioned it. There are regulations around that, but again, if people are taking shortcuts, without oversight, regulation means nothing. Isn't that right?

If we have regulation, it's about how we make sure it's being followed. If you're going to go for lunch later on this afternoon and you're going to have a hamburger, a steak, a salad or whatever, you know that restaurant was inspected, yet your families or your kids are on a school bus that is driving beside a truck where the driver may have gotten his licence in 24 hours. That's unacceptable. It's absolutely unacceptable.

Those are the reasons we're making the recommendations that we are in our report.

[Jason Groleau, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

What mechanisms would you suggest to fix this across Canada?

[Mark Bylsma]

As far as licensing goes, yes, I think we have that in our recommendations that are in front of you, but it certainly is going to require minimum standards. It's going to require graduated licensing and licensing for the particular types of vehicles you're driving.

Am I missing anything else?

[Geoffrey Wood]

No.

[Jason Groleau, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Mr. Bylsma, there have been a lot of incidents and accidents on the road between Ontario and Quebec. You're aware of that.

Do you think heavy-duty truck drivers should at least be somewhat proficient in French and speak a little English before getting their licence?

[Mark Bylsma]

Safety is probably the number one piece: if they are trained properly.

Also, communication is important. I think they're starting to crack down on that south of the border in the U.S., but if they can drive their vehicle safely and they can speak one or both of our languages in Canada, that's helpful.

[Jason Groleau, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Do you think provinces should communicate better with each other, particularly when it comes to interprovincial audits? I'm thinking here of driver's licences and insurance.

You mentioned it in your recommendations, but what would be your main recommendation to help ensure better communications?

[Mark Bylsma]

It's a matter of harmonizing everything and making sure that all of the jurisdictions and departments, both provincially and federally, are on the same page and are all focused on the same tree full of branches. Every one of those branches needs to be focused on.

That's why I started my comments by thanking the CRA and thanking ESDC. That's the tip of the iceberg, but we need to continue to pursue all aspects of the criminal side of this, whether it's tax evasion or whatever other criminality is involved. We need every aspect of federal and provincial governments working together.

[Jason Groleau, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

We've been doing this study for a number of weeks.

What concrete measures should the government take right now to ensure that our roads are safe?

That's for anyone who wants to answer the question.