Veterans Affairs Committee on Nov. 28th, 2013

[Guy Parent]

I'm certainly pleased with the administrative aspect of the program and the progress that's been made there. Obviously that amount of money existed before, but it was restricted within envelopes. Everything was compartmentalized. Now at least the flexibility is there for an individual to use the money that is available for whatever his needs are.

The thing that is still lacking, though, is the flexibility of an individual to choose a program that he wants to enter that is not based on their skills and competencies that existed in service. A good example would be a very physical person who loses two or three limbs, for instance, who now wants to go into academia, who wants to go into university education.

These things are not really flexible. There's no flexibility now to allow that, and this is where we want to go. It's not just the fact that it should be easy administratively, but it also has to be easy with regard to choices for careers and training.

[Bryan Hayes, Conservative, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

Perhaps we could pick up on that a little bit, because one of the things we got from the charter states that we want to build on existing education skills, training, and experience, and to your point, you stated that it needs to go beyond that.

Probably the reason that was there is it would be potentially easier for a veteran. If they're transitioning into civilian life, they would want to be able to use their existing skills.

To your point, you mentioned that we also need to look at aptitude and interest. I would suggest that we're doing that. In one of your comments you actually made reference to a veteran, for example, who was a traffic technician in the Canadian Forces but who wants to become an electrician and has the aptitude to do so, and that person should be supported to become an electrician. I would agree with you. I would think that with the Veterans Charter that would be understood.

This $75,800 will pay for a four-year university education or college education. I would think that veterans would have a choice in the type of program when they work with their case worker. I would think that would be understood.

Are you suggesting to me that it isn't the case?

[Guy Parent]

Not as much as it could be. What we're talking about is freedom of choice, somebody being able to choose a different career if they wish to. How do you take a sniper and build on his existing skills and competencies? That's very, very restricted employment.

There certainly has to be a dialogue between an individual who's transitioning, the case manager, the opportunities of work, and the environment as well in Canada. That's why we're saying there needs to be almost like a guidance counsellor in a high school type of approach, where it's about what is available, what it is you would like to do, and what is the best option.

[Bryan Hayes, Conservative, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

I can even speak to the experience of my two sons, both of whom are university educated, four-year honours programs, and neither one of them found work in their field. They're both educated.

This particular area is a challenge. I would look forward in the future to your advice as to how we might best implement that, because this is a challenging area.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Peter Stoffer]

Thank you, Mr. Hayes. That's very kind of you.

Now we go to your colleague, Mr. Chisu, for five minutes, please.

[Corneliu Chisu, Conservative, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much, Mr. Parent and your colleagues, for the great work you are doing for veterans.

I myself am a veteran. I served in Afghanistan. I retired from the armed forces in 2009, and I am not yet sick.

I appreciate very much what you are doing for the injured veterans. It is a good recommendation and I appreciate that very much.

Now, I'll ask you for clarification, because it's not very clear. In the Canadian Forces, everybody who is serving for two years gets a pension. You are aware of that. If you serve for two years in the Canadian Forces, you are allowed to have a pension.

[Guy Parent]

Yes—

[Corneliu Chisu, Conservative, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

There is a difference between the normal pension that you can get after two years of service and the disability pension that you were talking about where you need 10 years.

I don't know if you are aware that after two years of services, everybody in the forces can and is entitled to have a pension.

[Guy Parent]

Yes, they are entitled to a pension when they turn 65. They don't get the two-year pension right now. It's a deferred annuity—

[Corneliu Chisu, Conservative, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

I'm sorry, you get it at 60. That is the compulsory retirement.

[Guy Parent]

It's a deferred annuity based on 2% per year of service, which—

[Corneliu Chisu, Conservative, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

That's correct.

What is it about this 10 years? Can you explain it to me?

[Guy Parent]

The 10 years is that presently if you leave before 10 years, you don't get the pension index for life. If you leave the forces after 10 years and you are medically released, you do get a pension for life, indexed at that point in time.

[Corneliu Chisu, Conservative, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

Because you are also getting the indexed pension after you retire if you serve less than 10 years....

Sorry, I am getting it.

[Col Denys Guérin]

The 10 years, if I may, is if you are medically released with 10 years, you get an immediate unreduced annuity that is indexed from that point, but you have to have 10 years. If it's less than 10 years and you're not medically released, it's a deferred annuity until age 60, and there are other ways of getting that as well—

[Corneliu Chisu, Conservative, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

Yes, at age 60 you're getting it and it is indexed and so on. At 65 you have a clawback because you have the CPP, which you are entitled to.

Thank you for clarifying.

When you're speaking about the transition and the lull for the transition period between your time at National Defence and becoming a veteran when you are 60—today you are a serving member and tomorrow you are a veteran—how do you prepare? It is important to have a transition period in which you are prepared for civilian life. For me personally, the saddest day of my life was when I retired from the army. How do you think you are prepared for a transition? The transition begins when you are a serving member. How do you eventually coordinate this transition, which should be between the two entities, National Defence and Veterans Affairs? Do you have any recommendations on that?

[Guy Parent]

I believe we're headed in the right direction now, because they put together the joint personal support units that are in fact a team of Veterans Affairs Canada personnel and military personnel who actually help people transition.

Although you say that today you're in the forces and tomorrow you're not, if you're being medically released from the forces, now it's about a three-year transition before you're actually out of the forces.

I go back to what I said before. If you have very good communications and very good information as to what could be expected the day you step out, then it would certainly help the transition. I'm not sure that this is of the quality that it should be right now. People need to know exactly what they have access to. In fact, the new Veterans Charter is not very well known by a lot of people and certainly not by serving members, because when you're in the service.... I did 39 years and I didn't think about retirement until one day somebody said, “Whoa. You're out”, and that was it. I was a SAR tech, and it didn't bother me too much.

What's important is that if people know and they have the information, then the expectations are reasonable and people can transition. Partnership, communications, knowing what to expect, and having a clear idea that there are more opportunities on the other side than there are opportunities lost are the things, I think, that are really important.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Peter Stoffer]

Mr. Chisu, you're all done, sir. Thank you.

We now move to our second round, a four-minute round. We will start off with Madame Perreault, please, for four minutes.

[Manon Perreault, NDP, Montcalm, QC]

Good morning Mr. Parent. I am very happy to see you again. I met you in Mascouche not so long ago.

Mr. Parent, you can give me a very brief answer to my first question. I am sure you remember speaking to us about case management. I would like to know how many people are currently working on case management. How many are there?

[Guy Parent]

I don't think we have the latest figures, but we can certainly provide them.

We don't have the answer with us now but we could provide it to the committee.

[Manon Perreault, NDP, Montcalm, QC]

Yes, that would be appreciated.

Page 9 of your document compares the New Veterans Charter to the Pension Act and we can see that more than 53% of veterans who are totally and permanently incapacitated do not receive an allowance. I would guess that this is because of the Pension Act's eligibility criteria. Which criteria are responsible for such a significant drop in allowances?

[Col Denys Guérin]

What page are you on?

[Manon Perreault, NDP, Montcalm, QC]

Page 8 in the English version.

[Col Denys Guérin]

Are you referring to the fourth point?

[Manon Perreault, NDP, Montcalm, QC]

Yes, I am indeed referring to the fourth point.