Evidence of meeting #5 for Veterans Affairs in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cases.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Exactly. I want you to provide the concrete examples that come to mind.
Director, Veterans Services, Dominion Command, Royal Canadian Legion
There are many areas. Hearing loss and tinnitus is a condition that is subjective. Once they have their entitlement, I see many veterans who start out at 2%, 4% or 6%, and they're coming back three and four times when they talk to their buddies and find out that they need a masking device at night. They probably already use a masking device in the form of a sleeping pill or a radio to go to sleep at night. If it is so subjective, which it is, why don't you just grant the tinnitus claims and then come up with an assessment that's comparable to what it is now from 0% to 11%, and if you've got it, you get it? If you don't have it, you don't get it. That's one easy way to take the tinnitus claims out instead of always coming back for an assessment.
As for PTSD, there are many conditions that are linked to PTSD once you start taking medication, so they're now looking at that because they'll will do one mental health condition and then they're coming back with GERD, or erectile dysfunction. Instead of doing another full application, just provide the diagnosis and have it linked to it.
Another part is departmental reviews. Three years ago, departmental reviews on Agent Orange.... The previous chair of VRAB returned them all to the department. They are still sitting with the department over two years later, and our veterans are very disgruntled.
When they write to the department, the department goes back and tells them that it's because of the backlog. It's not because of the backlog; it's in legal review. Be upfront, be transparent, and tell them why it's not being done, or do something about it. Just be transparent.
It's the same with the wait time tool. Let the veteran know what month you're working on. You're working on August 2018 on single condition, first applications. Tell them that, and then use the wait time tool from there. Just be transparent. The veteran will be happier. It will be in the ballpark, because right now we're throwing darts at a board as to when to expect a decision.
NDP
Rachel Blaney NDP North Island—Powell River, BC
Thank you, Chair.
I want to thank everybody for being here today. I really appreciate the level of honesty and commitment in the work that you do.
I have a few questions. I'm going to start with the union. One thing I found really interesting about your testimony today is that you said it's a six-month hiring process. I'm wondering why it takes so long to hire someone.
National President, Union of Veterans' Affairs Employees
There's going through the Public Service Commission and getting it posted. Once you do that, you have to screen the applications and make sure they meet the criteria of the job. Then it's organizing the selection processes. Then you have to do the security clearances, fingerprinting and everything else before they can actually be offered an opportunity.
NDP
Rachel Blaney NDP North Island—Powell River, BC
We have a huge backlog and a six-month process. I can imagine those two things coming together, when you need people so desperately, would certainly bring a bigger challenge.
In 2018, there was a unanimous motion passed in the House that the NDP put forward. The motion was simply saying that whatever money is left over at the end of the year for the Veterans Affairs budget should just be rolled over into the next year to see that follow-up. That's not happening. Last year, $105 million was sort of returned to general revenue.
When we look at these backlogs.... Another part is that we see there's money moving from operations into programs. I'm still not connecting. I asked both the minister and the deputy minister to explain to me how money moving from operations into programs is going to help with this significant backlog, which is the biggest frustration for our veterans.
I'm wondering if you can speak to those.
National President, Union of Veterans' Affairs Employees
With regard to moving money out of the operations, Veterans Affairs Canada has a 6% operation budget. The 6% budget is less than what most charitable organizations have for an operational budget. When we look at the veterans' aspect, we're a department that's supposed to provide services and benefits, but the operation is so low.
We have a concern—I have a concern—with the minister's announcement of moving the $4 million over to a veterans emergency fund. In our opinion, we don't think the veterans would need as much emergency fund assistance if we could just get their claims processed and paid.
NDP
Rachel Blaney NDP North Island—Powell River, BC
Thank you. I think that's an important part.
I was also really amazed by the current caseloads that you talked about, which are up to 66 people per case manager. We saw in the March 2019 audit that the ratio the ministry put forward was 36:1, which is still significantly more than the 25. When I look at these numbers, do you know if 36 is the average? Are you seeing something different in the actual number of workers?
National President, Union of Veterans' Affairs Employees
In the reports that I get from the department, for instance, at the end of December 31, 2019, they had 13,022 case-managed veterans. They take the number of case managers and just divide it. That's how they get the average, but it's not the reality of what each case manager is actually facing.
NDP
Rachel Blaney NDP North Island—Powell River, BC
It could be different depending on the area they are in, but it often doesn't really reflect the reality on the ground.
NDP
Rachel Blaney NDP North Island—Powell River, BC
You talked a bit about overtime. Are case managers being appropriately compensated for all of the overtime they're being asked to work? Is there any extra time off to help with that level of overtime or are there any bonuses? Do you know how that compares to executive compensation and bonuses at Veterans Affairs Canada?
National President, Union of Veterans' Affairs Employees
The front-line staff never see a bonus. Unfortunately, the employees who obtain the bonuses are the EX levels, and that's it.
Actually, we recently completed an ATIP request regarding the performance pay bonuses that the EX levels get. In 2017-18, the employer paid out over $1.04 million in bonuses. In 2018-19, they paid out over $1,051,477 in bonuses. For instance, the EX-1 levels, which are area directors and some of the branch directors, got over $8,000 in 2018-19. The EX-4s, which are the ADMs or the director general levels, got over $56,000 in bonuses at the end of December, which is disheartening to see.
Of course, when you do the ATIP request for the ADM for service delivery, they black it out because there's only one. I can only imagine that if the EX-4s are getting $56,000, his will be much higher.
NDP
Rachel Blaney NDP North Island—Powell River, BC
Thank you for that information.
I just think this is frustrating, and I heard that clearly in the report. It was a good reminder for me that not only are veterans and the people who love and care for them in their community frustrated with the backlog, but it's also the people on the other side who are working really hard, both at the Legion level and as the workers. It's creating this really stressful situation for everyone. The reality is that the ombudsperson said we needed a plan to deal with this backlog. Now we've had the minister promise to provide us one in 30 days.
Do you think that a plan would really make it different, by at least providing some clarity both for the people who are on the veterans side and the family side, and also for the folks who are providing the services?
National President, Union of Veterans' Affairs Employees
I'm not sure if it would make.... I don't think the plan will potentially work. They're talking with all senior-level managers. They need to come and talk to the front-line staff on how to actually create a plan to make it work.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bryan May
Thank you.
Now, MP Ruff, you have five minutes. We're going to have to keep it a hard five because we're getting close to the end.
Conservative
Alex Ruff Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON
Got it. If I have any spare time, I'm going to split my time with Mr. Lloyd.
First off, I'm going to address the Legion. I'm just going to read a quick quote from a Legion press release from June 2017: The impact military service has on our sailors, soldiers and airmen and women often makes the transition back to civilian life challenging. In all cases there is a period of adjustment. In some cases, this transition can impact physical and mental health, disrupt financial stability, impact relationships and families, and can lead to short and long term challenges that could have been avoided had the process not been so difficult. Today, the delay in receiving timely pension and severance pay; the backlog in Veterans Affairs Canada disability applications; the lack of communication and outreach to those retiring; and issues with service accessibility have compounded that challenge to a crisis point.
I just want to say thank you for everything that you guys and everybody there are doing within the Legion. As full disclosure, I am a Legion member—just so everybody knows—but it's a non-paid or non-compensated position.
You talk about, from your statistics, how you dealt with more than 1,400 cases last year alone. They're complete files that go in when they're submitted to VAC. How many of those that you are involved with would get denied?
Director, Veterans Services, Dominion Command, Royal Canadian Legion
I don't keep stats on our favourable rates. I try to tell my service officers that if it's favourable or it's unfavourable.... When it's unfavourable, we have a mechanism called departmental review, and we can take advantage of that. If not, we'll go to the VRAB.
But there are going to be times when there are no links to service. A win for me, if it is unfavourable, is sitting down and counselling the veteran on why it cannot be linked to service. I don't have those stats, but it's 4,000 files that we sent last year, not 1,400. I can say all the departmental reviews were 100% favourable because it was not based on partial policy.
Conservative
Alex Ruff Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON
What is the biggest complaint you're receiving from the different veterans service officers? I don't mean about the backlog, but what's the biggest complaint or claim that's going in?
Director, Veterans Services, Dominion Command, Royal Canadian Legion
At the moment it is, as I said in my statement, the musculoskeletal conditions. As you know, the department is looking at doing something presumptive for combat arms, and that's great. I applaud that. Use your task statement. But for non-combat arms, many of us served in field units and many of us served on ships.
We've got to take advantage of that CJT directive. For those of you who don't know what CJT is, it's if you don't have an injury in service, you serve more than 10 years and you end up with osteoarthritic problems post-service, you can use that CJT principle based on your physical fitness that you use or your trade. For the majority of the support trades, it's going to be based on their physical fitness, and that has to be documented. We're seeing decisions that are coming back in the last four months as unfavourable based on how they're interpreting the EEGs, and it's not consistent with what we've received in the past two years. I'm addressing that with the department now, because it's creating a lot of angst, especially in western Canada. We're doing a lot of those claims at the moment.
Conservative
Alex Ruff Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON
Thanks so much.
For Ms. Vaillancourt, I'd brought up earlier—I don't know if you reviewed some of the testimony—the advantages of having veterans amongst your case managers and your staff. Would you know exactly how many case managers are actually veterans?
National President, Union of Veterans' Affairs Employees
I don't have the specific stats, but I do know that we have seen a number of our veterans, who have been hired, rejected on probation.
Conservative
National President, Union of Veterans' Affairs Employees
A lot of times it could be as simple as they're having mental health issues and could be late for work. We had somebody recently who was rejected for being late by 12 minutes. It's the plausibility of the rejection on probation. They can get rid of you for any reason whatsoever.