Evidence of meeting #27 for Veterans Affairs in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was investigation.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Blake Richards Conservative Banff—Airdrie, AB
Who was “we”? Did VAC help a veteran go to court to get medical assistance in dying? Was that Veterans Affairs? Who is “we”?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Emmanuel Dubourg
Excuse me, Mr. Richards.
Excuse me, Minister. We're going to have another round. You will be able to answer the question then, because the six minutes are well over.
Now I would like to invite MP Wilson Miao for his six minutes, please.
Liberal
Wilson Miao Liberal Richmond Centre, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister and officials, for coming again to our committee to address this issue that we have. Thank you for your update on this investigation.
You said in your opening remarks that the investigation is ongoing. Could you please explain the steps of the investigation and how confident you and the department are that this case is isolated to only this one employee?
Liberal
Lawrence MacAulay Liberal Cardigan, PE
Of course, you're fully aware of this situation brought forward by Bruce, or whoever it is. I indicated quite clearly to my colleague previously that if he wishes to contact any one of us or the department, or wishes to talk to somebody privately, we're very open to that.
As far as being confident is concerned, the investigation has not been totally completed. It's close to being completed, but the human resources part of the investigation is also an issue that has to be dealt with. That's basically where we are in the investigation.
You can never be sure of anything until the investigation is over, but we're in the final stages of the investigation. As I indicated in my remarks, and as you heard, it's being turned over to the RCMP.
Liberal
Wilson Miao Liberal Richmond Centre, BC
I have a follow-up question on that. How can you assure this standing committee and veterans that all incidents have been uncovered? I understand that one of my colleagues just mentioned another incident. Is this process being worked on?
Liberal
Lawrence MacAulay Liberal Cardigan, PE
We went over hundreds of thousands of files and we haven't found anything as of yet that would.... We found the two cases that I indicated when I spoke, but beyond that, we have not found....
However, as you heard from the previous questioner, there is the situation with Bruce. Of course, we want to deal with this up front and make sure that he gets the help and assistance that he needs. We're going to make sure that happens.
Liberal
Wilson Miao Liberal Richmond Centre, BC
Thank you.
Minister, what is the status of the labour relations process as it relates to the veterans service agent, and how do these processes normally play out?
Liberal
Lawrence MacAulay Liberal Cardigan, PE
The labour relations issue is the human resources issue. It's an issue that is dealt with by the public servants in the federal bureaucracy, and I believe that it would be more than appropriate to have either the assistant deputy or the deputy expand further on how that process works.
It's important to note that this employee, who was responsible for four of the discussions, is not talking to veterans. We want to make sure that doesn't happen, and we will make sure that doesn't happen. The employee is definitely not dealing with veterans. She is not dealing with veterans' issues at the moment.
Liberal
Wilson Miao Liberal Richmond Centre, BC
I understand you talked about the timeline of this information you found—
November 24th, 2022 / 3:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Emmanuel Dubourg
Excuse me, Mr. Miao. Could you please address your question through the chair?
Liberal
Wilson Miao Liberal Richmond Centre, BC
No problem, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Chair, could the minister explain how this information was uncovered and when he received this update on the four incidents?
Liberal
Lawrence MacAulay Liberal Cardigan, PE
I gave the dates.
The first information that we received.... When we received information from the department to my office, I immediately instructed the deputy to conduct an investigation. As I indicated when I spoke—and we found the two cases—we have now gone on to make sure that it's expanded to case managers and veterans service agent managers to make sure that everybody is covered on this issue and that everybody is trained properly.
There's a lot of training that took place. I believe about 75% of the frontline workers have had training and we're continuing that process. There have also been questions and answers with the frontline workers, to make sure that they fully understand what they can and cannot say.
Of course, with MAID, the policy is that if the issue is brought up at all by a frontline worker, they are to bring it to their mangers immediately.
Liberal
Liberal
Wilson Miao Liberal Richmond Centre, BC
Thank you.
Through you, Mr. Chair, was the department in contact with any of the families of the veterans who were implicated?
Liberal
Wilson Miao Liberal Richmond Centre, BC
Did the department have any contact with the families of any veterans who were implicated?
Liberal
Lawrence MacAulay Liberal Cardigan, PE
Absolutely. Immediately upon hearing it, the department issued formal apologies to the veterans or the veterans' families who were involved. Absolutely.
Liberal
Liberal
Lawrence MacAulay Liberal Cardigan, PE
Of course, I would like to apologize to any veteran who had anything to do with this situation. It was totally unacceptable.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Emmanuel Dubourg
Thank you so much.
I now invite the second vice-chair of the committee, Luc Desilets, to take the floor for six minutes.
Bloc
Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Good afternoon, Mr. MacAuley, Mr. Ledwell and Mr. Harris. Thank you for being here.
Hello to my esteemed colleagues as well.
Mr. Minister, it's been four months since the allegations were filed or made public. Has any progress been made on this matter? What is the status?
Liberal
Lawrence MacAulay Liberal Cardigan, PE
We are in the final stages, Mr. Desilets, on the investigation itself, but the human resources area is an issue that has to be dealt with. As I indicated previously, it's been referred to the RCMP. I'm not sure how much time that will take. We want to do this as quickly as possible, but I'm sure we all agree that we want to do it as efficiently as possible and to make sure that we take every step possible so that this does not occur again.
Bloc
Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Okay. I want to be sure I understand. When was the matter referred to the RCMP? When we saw each other a month ago, there was no mention of that.
Liberal
Lawrence MacAulay Liberal Cardigan, PE
Mr. Desilets, you're absolutely right. I had my briefing with the deputy a few days ago. I had indicated previously to him to take every possible measure, and he indicated to me that he had contacted the RCMP.
I think it's appropriate to let the deputy expand on that, if he wishes to.