Veterans Affairs Committee on Dec. 5th, 2022

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you very much.

Of course, this is not a new.... This is a new contract, but it's not a new way of doing things. It's just a better way of doing things.

Thank you. I think my time is up.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

That's exactly right, Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Casey.

I want to welcome our colleague Marc Dalton, who is subbing for Cathay Wagantall. He's on the screen.

We now go to the second vice-chair of the committee.

Mr. Desilets, you have the floor for the next six minutes.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Greetings to our guests.

Minister, I'm pleased to see you're full of energy.

Last week, we heard from Christine Gauthier. I know you're very familiar with the case, but just a brief reminder that, in 2018, Ms. Gauthier relocated and requested that an elevator be installed in her new home. The department granted her claim in 2020. That same year, however, Ms. Gauthier was forced to file another claim because the contractor had botched the installation of her elevator. It was a bureaucratic snafu, somewhat unpleasant, but that's life, for now.

As of this year, there is still no elevator in Ms. Gauthier's home. She has now been waiting five years for an elevator to be installed. Her claim has been pending for a very long time and Ms. Gauthier has to wriggle her way down the stairs like a worm. I don't want to discuss medical assistance in dying for the moment.

I am personally affected by this, and I find it hard to understand why quicker action can't be taken.

Could you simply give me a guarantee that you will give special attention to this specific case, which I find inhumane.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you, Luc.

I do know you care about veterans, and I appreciate that.

On individual files, I'm not supposed to discuss them and I won't, but the issue that you raised has been raised, so I will certainly make it a priority to do everything we can. That does not mean that we can provide everything that an individual asks for, but we will do everything we can under the regulations in order to make sure that this veteran receives what she truly needs. She went out front for us and protected us. I fully understand that, and it's vitally important that we do that.

I think on the file itself—and I don't deal with individual files—I'll mention to the deputy that I hope it can get some specific attention. I think it would be appropriate for him to expand on that.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I understand that, Minister. However, as you also know, the department has granted Ms. Gauthier's claim. We're talking about a few hundred thousand dollars to install an elevator. It's just a matter of slightly expediting the process.

Mr. Harris or Mr. Ledwell, when a minister fails to meet expectations, authorities such as the Office of the Veterans Ombudsman, the Office of the Auditor General, the Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages and the Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer are there to make suggestions to assist in rectifying the situation and taking the required corrective measures.

My concerns are mainly related to the consortium. How can we ensure that adequate services are provided? Will it have to demonstrate its methods? Will there be another evaluation of the quality of services rendered? If so, how will that be done?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you very much, Luc.

I can fully assure you—

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Pardon me for interrupting, Minister. I thought your colleagues were going to answer my question.

As you wish, Minister. Go ahead; I'm pleased to hear your comments.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Mr. Desilets, I believe it's fair to say that there are more francophone specialists available in Quebec and more francophone specialists available outside of Quebec with this contract. I wanted to make sure of that.

However, on the details of the contract, Steven can respond.

[Steven Harris, Assistant Deputy Minister, Service Delivery Branch, Department of Veterans Affairs]

The contract includes performance measures enabling service providers to ensure they can meet their objectives and also enable the department to conduct audits.

Under the contract, there will definitely be performance reviews, which will be reported, and the Department of Veterans Affairs will ensure that everything is in order. Should any issues arise with the contract, veterans may contact our department to ensure they are resolved.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Can the Office of the Veterans Ombudsman or the Office of the Auditor General conduct an audit?

[Steven Harris]

Not specifically of the contract, no. However, we work closely with those two organizations to ensure that any issue that may arise in the context of the contract is resolved.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

What you're saying is interesting. We'll probably see in six months to a year, when we start seeing some results.

As you know, my other concern is francophones. Of the 9,000 health workers who will be involved with our veterans, how many do you think will come from Quebec and how many will have French as their first language?

[Steven Harris]

I can simply say that, right now, the number of workers involved under the new contract is more or less the same as with the former service provider, which is to say nearly 500 in Quebec. The new service provider is still encouraging other workers to register to offer their services.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

That means that, in proportion to the number of veterans, we'll have the same number of businesses providing services in French.

[Steven Harris]

Yes, that's more or less it. As I said, the number of workers is roughly the same right now. We're still looking out for and actively seeking other service providers to ensure good performance in Quebec.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Harris and Mr. Desilets.

Now I'd like to turn the floor over to Ms. Rachel Blaney, for six minutes or less, please.

Go ahead.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I thank all of you for being here today as witnesses.

Where I want to start is, first of all, by acknowledging how many veterans are in the audience today hearing from this committee. I want to recognize them and thank them so much for their service.

Before I get into the service delivery concern I think many of us share, I do want to acknowledge that it's a been a difficult period of time. We've heard stories from multiple veterans, some of them publicly and some of them anonymously, regarding their concerns about being offered access to MAID, which we know legally doesn't really make any sense.

We've heard that there have been letters that have been sent both to you, Minister, and to the Prime Minister. What I heard earlier is that if veterans want to come forward to VAC, there is an openness to that and an encouragement of that, and that if they don't feel safe, they can go to the veterans ombudsman. I understand that and I do hope veterans come forward. This is very serious.

I'm just going to come back to the fact that we still know that there is no recording by Veterans Affairs of conversations that happen. Right now what I understand is that a basic search for those discussions goes through case files.

I'm just wondering if there is any exploration of this and, if veterans want their conversations to be recorded, any consideration of looking at this. It seems to me we're getting into a position where it becomes very much “he said, she said”, and veterans deserve better. They served our country.

I just want to make sure we don't let this fall down. If there is a big concern we need to address, we want to see it done and we want to see it done well. Part of that is having something we can go back to in order to make sure this never happens again.

I'll leave that to you, Minister, to respond to.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you, Ms. Blaney.

Regarding the “he said, she said”, I want to make it crystal clear. I received no information indicating that MAID was used. I did not receive any information on that issue concerning last Thursday's...and any other that I know of in any letters I have received.

I certainly agree that this has to be dealt with. That's why, as you know, I want to make sure I give you the facts. What I want to do is make sure you have the facts, and the fact is that at this time there's an investigation on. There are four people. There's one case manager. That's unacceptable, but that's where we are at the moment. It has been referred to the RCMP, just so we make sure you know that this is what we're doing. But we have to—

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

I'm sorry to interrupt, Minister, but the point I'm really curious about is whether there are any discussions about recording conversations so that we can do this. I don't think any veteran in this country wants to feel like he or she hasn't told the truth, and that's what I'm concerned about at this point. There is this sense of “We didn't know. Are you telling us?”

I want to honour veterans' truth and their experience. This is very important, because they need to feel safe. Will there be any discussions moving forward about recording conversations or even allowing for the option that if a veteran wants a conversation to be recorded, it will be?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

First of all, I want you to know that there is the Privacy Act, of course. Most veterans want to make sure it's private. That's why I want you to be fully sure, just so you know—

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

I'm going to leave it at that.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Please give me the chance. The fact is that you have to know truly that I did not receive any information on the issue that was discussed here last Friday concerning MAID. Other issues.... But you're right.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Okay. Can I get on to the service? I think you've answered the question. The answer is no. I'm confused about that—

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

The answer is that I did not receive—