Veterans Affairs Committee on Feb. 2nd, 2023

[Capt(N) (Ret'd) Paul Guindon]

It's just my impression, so I don't know whether it's true or not. For that reason, I prefer not to answer.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Very well.

Thank you, Mr. Guindon.

I'm done, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Desilets.

Mr. Guindon, thank you for choosing your words so carefully.

To close the first round of questions, I invite Ms. Rachel Blaney to go ahead for six minutes or less.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you, Chair. Through you, of course, I thank all the folks who are here today testifying. It's been very informative so far.

I'm going to come to you first, Mr. Guindon. You talked in your testimony about the culture that is there and how it feels very familiar to veterans and retired RCMP who come to work there. It sounds as though people settle into the job fairly quickly. I'm wondering if you could talk a bit about what that culture is and why you feel it's so appealing. That would be helpful.

The other part of the question is around numbers. How many veterans do you have working and how many RCMP? If you have any numbers around those things, that would also be very helpful.

[Capt(N) (Ret'd) Paul Guindon]

Well, first, on the culture side of things, the armed forces are a multitude of small families from coast to coast that make this big family at the end of the day. The commissionaires are very similar to that. Veterans come with this understanding that teamwork is very important, that it is crucial. In fact, not only do veterans enjoy the environment, but non-veterans in our workforce become very accustomed to this way of thinking of things, looking at things and delivering as a team and not as an individual.

In terms of the number of veterans, as I said in my opening remarks, we have about 4,400, which is down quite a bit from what we had a decade or two or three ago, and as I said, there are reasons for that. However, we seem to have stabilized and we recruit about 700 a year. We knew we had this demographic bubble—that was recognized about 18 years ago—and that a lot of veterans were reaching retirement from us.

As an aside, when veterans join the corps, the vast majority will work for many years. In fact, about a month ago I celebrated a commissionaire who had just completed his 50th year with the commissionaires. That's after having served three and a half years in the military, and he's only 72 years old, so he's been working since he was 17 or 18. We have a recognition program, which is also part of our culture. We recognize employees. We recognize longevity. We recently launched a national program under which we recognize the best supervisor and the best guard across the country.

There are a multitude of things that create this environment that is very similar to the military. It's no big secret that the corps is led overwhelmingly by veterans as well, so we bring that to the table.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you. That was very helpful.

We've also heard from research that some of the veterans who have the greatest challenges finding employment are newer veterans. You've talked about this particular group. They don't have as much experience and they don't bring a pension with them, so sometimes there can be challenges there. There are also challenges for those who are medically released and for women veterans.

Could you talk a little about what you think it is that leads to so much success in bringing brand new veterans in, and how that assists. I'm also wondering if you have any other information specifically around medically released veterans and women veterans.

[Capt(N) (Ret'd) Paul Guindon]

I'll pass the mike to our chief of staff here, but before I do that I'll just say that you're quite right. Roughly 70% of veterans do not have a pension, because the average retirement age is 36 years old.

[Captain, N) (Retired) Harry Harsch (Chief of Staff, Commissionaires National Office, Canadian Corps of Commissionaires]

The other part of the question is that a number of veterans don't join just after their military service. Many of them will leave the service, and we see that a lot. You get a young corporal who does four or five years and says, “It was great, but it's time to move on. I'm going to go do something else.” Then they do something else until they can't do it anymore, and that's often when they come to us, in their late 40s to late 50s. Because they served for only four or five years, they don't qualify for a pension. These are the folks who are the most important to us, because we provide a living for them and their families.

To get to the point of your question, though, for a number of veterans who leave the armed forces—which can be at different stages, including some who leave after 20, 25 or 30 years—they have a pension, so the work itself isn't as important, as Paul mentioned earlier on, as the ability to work with other veterans and to have that sense of camaraderie, belonging and mission.

Young veterans who are leaving are another group that we're trying to recruit. We spoke earlier about the veteran education and training benefit. One of our offerings is that individuals who take advantage of that can come to us for part-time work while they're studying, and we will go out of our way to make sure we give them enough shifts to help them along the way. Speaking of the benefit, two of my staff have taken advantage of the benefit. One of them is actually using it right now, in partnership with us, to get an MBA.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you, sir.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you so much, Mr. Harsch.

We are now starting the second round of questions. I would ask everyone to please stick to their allotted time.

Therefore, the last two members, Mr. Dowdall and Ms. Valdez, won't be able to ask questions in this round, but maybe they will with the next panel.

Now I'd like to invite the first VP of the committee, Mr. Blake Richards, for five minutes.

Go ahead, please.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Thank you to all three of you for being here.

Ms. Lowther, I hope I'll have some time to get to a question or two for you, but if I don't, I want to thank you for the work you do with veterans. It certainly is appreciated. We appreciate your being here, and I hope I'll have a chance.

I want to start with our friends from the commissionaires. You mentioned something in your opening remarks. Ms. Blaney asked about it, but I don't think I heard the response, because she asked you a multi-part question. You said you have 4,400 veterans employed currently. Is that correct? I don't know what your total workforce is at the commissionaires, but what percentage of that is veterans?

[Capt(N) (Ret'd) Paul Guindon]

Our workforce from coast to coast is approximately 21,000 to 22,000. As I said, we employ about 4,400 veterans.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

It's about 25% then, roughly?

[Capt(N) (Ret'd) Paul Guindon]

Yes. Keep in mind that this may seem like a low ratio, but veterans work for us in many places, in fact, in about 1,200 communities, many of which do not have a federal building to work in.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Right.

[Capt(N) (Ret'd) Paul Guindon]

For example, about 10 years ago in Kirkland Lake we had three veterans who needed work. We found a contract but we needed about eight or nine people. Well, we had to hire non-veterans as well to service that contract in order help the veterans in need.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Gotcha.

You brought up the federal buildings. I know you have the right of first refusal for all federal buildings in terms of the security contracts. That's what you were referencing, I think, when you mentioned the federal buildings. I think it's supposed to be that 60% of the employees there are veterans. Is that right? What percentage is it in terms of the federal building themselves?

[Capt(N) (Ret'd) Paul Guindon]

First of all, we are not in all federal buildings. The government has a multitude of contractual vehicles. Yes, we have a contract called the NMSO, but there are others. For example, CRA went to a tender, as did CATSA and you name it. There's a huge amount of security work that is not done through that vehicle.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Okay. I understand. I appreciate that.

What percentage of those you employ in those security positions in the federal buildings are veterans?

[Capt(N) (Ret'd) Paul Guindon]

In the federal government, it's not about the number of veterans; it's about hours of work, and it's about 38% or so.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

It's about 38%.

[Capt(N) (Ret'd) Paul Guindon]

Keep in mind, for example, that this past quarter, 1.3 million hours were worked by veterans. In all of those 1.3 million hours, 450,000 hours were worked in commercial settings, because there's no federal facility.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Understood.

It's appreciated, you know, that we want to see veterans employed where they can be and where they are. Obviously, not being able to meet that 60% means you're not getting to the goal you would like to reach. I'm sure you would like that to be at 100% if it could be.

I'm just curious: What are some of the challenges you're facing with respect to reaching that 60%? Is that an unrealistic target? Is there something you think you can do better to get to that 60%? What are the challenges you're facing with respect to being able to employ more veterans in those roles?

[Capt(N) (Ret'd) Paul Guindon]

It's not easy to recruit, of course, as I said earlier. You asked whether that is an unrealistic target.

It sure is. It's not needed. It doesn't bring anything to veteran employment at all. The two are mutually exclusive.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Just to follow up on that, is that number increasing or decreasing for you now? Is there anything you're doing to try to bring that number up? Can you give us some examples of things you're doing to try to do that?

Obviously, I'm sure we all want to see as many veterans as possible employed. I know you do. That's what your organization is all about.