Veterans Affairs Committee on Nov. 7th, 2023

[Jennifer Ebert]

I can speak from my experience in relation to that. You referred to the belts. There have been changes to the way that's done. Obviously, a gun belt is going to sit lower on the hip on women and fit differently. There have been changes in our dress and deportment in relation to the type of gun belt we're using, as well as other changes that would allow overalls and those types of things.

Women's body shapes and types, similar to men's, come in all shapes and sizes. However, from personal experience, after having children, I know there are certain changes that happen to women's bodies that affect the way they may fit into the uniform. It's the same for the modernization of our pistol and fitting smaller hands.

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

Chair, I didn't see the one-minute flag there.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

You were not looking at me. It's over.

You know you can split your six minutes. It will also be really important to choose the witness whom you would like to answer the questions.

Now let's go to MP Carolyn Bennett for six minutes, please.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Chair, I would like to know who actually is in charge of the veterans. I also hope that we will hear from some women veterans from the RCMP, seeing that it's quite complicated in terms of how RCMP veterans, but particularly women veterans, as I think we know, were excluded from the Veterans Well-being Act.

How do you compare the services that are available to RCMP veterans with those available to CAF veterans? I think we heard last week that how people are treated while they're serving affects how they are treated as veterans. If the questions on women's health were not asked while they were serving, then they end up having trouble dealing with that.

As well, in terms of work-related accidents, how do you deal with people when there is sexual trauma that clearly is work-related and not an accident? How are you dealing with women who have left your employ traumatized? How do you deal with that? How does that differ? How many veterans file claims with VAC for sexual trauma?

[Nadine Huggins]

Thank you very much for the questions.

We take the client-centred approach very seriously in the organization. The needs of women who have any injuries of any kind are addressed quite substantially and substantively and immediately.

I'm going to allow—

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

Just to be clear, in terms of their health care once they're a vet, isn't this now downloaded to the provinces and territories?

[Nadine Huggins]

Yes. There are the provinces and territories, but we work with Veterans Affairs to ensure that they receive the pensions and the health care they require, such as any supplemental health care they may need.

I think it probably would be great for Joanne to take this part. She's the subject matter expert on the actual implementation of the veterans piece.

[Joanne Rigon, Executive Director, Executive Liaison Officer, National Compensation Services, Human Resources, Royal Canadian Mounted Police]

Thank you for the questions and the opportunity to answer.

Our members who are still serving do fall under provincial health care, but the RCMP has supplemental benefits in health care that go beyond what provinces might need if it is an occupational injury or illness. For our—

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

Does that include sexual assault?

[Joanne Rigon]

It would cover any kind of injury or illness as they work it through our occupational health and services process. I would suggest that they would bring forward any injury or trauma or illness. That would be dealt with, along with the appropriate supports that would be required by our members.

For those veterans, certainly, the RCMP has a “member injured on duty” program—

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

We're looking at veterans' experience. Do you have feedback loops on whether they feel they're getting the supports they think they ought to have? Do you have an advisory committee of women veterans to see whether they feel their supports and services are adequate in supplementing the provincial and territorial systems?

[Joanne Rigon]

I'm pleased to tell you that we work with the RCMP Veterans' Association. That relationship is continuing to mature and develop. We are actively working towards a transition framework with members who are still serving and as they move into civilian life.

We are also discussing what supports women veterans would need, as well as what other veterans who are leaving the RCMP would need. We are actively working with them to enhance those services and supports.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

In terms of mental health supports and perinatal mental health, I think there's good evidence showing that the experiences of women veterans while they're serving are very different from what they experience once they become veterans and are being accommodated for what they experienced while they were serving.

Do you have any recruitment retention numbers? Are women lasting in the service as long as the men?

[Nadine Huggins]

In terms of specific numbers, we'd be really pleased to provide you the latest data we have on recruitment and retention writ large for the organization, including for women. We are seeing that we are maintaining our numbers. About 23% of our population are women. They do tend to stay with the organization for about 20 to 25 years, which is a little shorter than for men, but I think there are a number of reasons for that.

We'd be happy to provide the committee with the numbers that we have. We'll send them off to the clerk, if that's okay.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Desilets, you have the floor for the next six minutes.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to all our witnesses.

Ms. Huggins, I'd like to expand on the matter that my Conservative colleague raised earlier.

At the last meeting of this committee, we heard about Canadian military members, both veterans and in service, who had undergone mastectomies because their equipment wasn't adequate and caused repetitive injuries. It appears that's the solution that they found.

Are you experiencing that the RCMP as well? Have you heard of any such cases?

[Nadine Huggins]

Honestly, no, I've never heard of that, but I'll ask my colleague, DeAnna Hill, to provide some clarification on the equipment issue.

Maybe I'll ask DeAnna if she would like to explore her experience with our equipment, because I'm not aware of a situation in the RCMP of somebody having to modify their body to actually fit into our equipment.

[DeAnna Hill, Assistant Commissioner, Commanding Officer, J Division, Royal Canadian Mounted Police]

Thank you, Nadine.

Thank you, Mr. Chair, for the question.

I personally certainly could not recall an instance that I have heard of in the past, and I am one of those people who will soon be a veteran. I have 34 years completed in the RCMP and may likely be on the other end of things in the not too distant future.

I come from a time when our kit looked very different from the way it looks today. There have been significant adjustments made in terms of uniformity. Instead of having female equipment versus male equipment and issued dress, that has all been adapted so that we can select pants or skirts. There are lots of things like that.

The broader issue, from my perspective, is the extensive amount of equipment that a police officer is meant to don on a daily basis. One of the large problems comes into play when most—

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Ms. Hill, I'll just refocus my question.

I'm talking about cases that were reported to us of mastectomies in the Canadian Armed Forces. You're telling me there are no such cases in the RCMP or that you have never heard of any. Is that correct?

[DeAnna Hill]

Do you mean breast removal specifically in order to wear equipment?

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Yes.

[DeAnna Hill]

I have not heard of that whatsoever.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

So you're telling me, Ms. Hill, that the RCMP's equipment is different from that of the Canadian Armed Forces and that it's more suited to women than that of the Canadian Armed Forces.

[DeAnna Hill]

I couldn't speak to a comparison between what the military dons and what we wear on a daily basis.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Similarly, do you see more musculoskeletal problems among women than men in the RCMP?