Debates of Oct. 26th, 1994

Museum Of Nature

[Jan Brown, Reform, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the President of the Privy Council as a member of the Treasury Board authorized the construction of facilities for the Museum of Nature to be built in his riding. This puts him in a possible conflict of interest.

Why did the President of the Privy Council not absent himself from this decision?

[Marcel Massé, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada]

Mr. Speaker, nice try but no cigar.

The decision to use property in Aylmer to meet the accommodation needs of the Canadian Museum of Nature dates back to 1990 when the Treasury Board approved the purchase of the property on Pink Road in Aylmer by the Department of Public Works and Government Services for use by the museum.

[Jan Brown, Reform, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Nice try, Mr. Speaker; I don't smoke.

Furthermore I reject that answer on the grounds that the decision of 1990 was rejected by the Liberals. It indeed was a Tory decision taken in 1990. This is a new decision undertaken by the Liberals.

My supplementary question is for the Prime Minister. The Prime Minister said he would restore the trust of Canadians in their institutions. The political system is meant to serve the interest of Canadians and not of members of Parliament. When the public trust is gone the system does not work any more.

The building of this museum in the member's riding is at best what appears to be a conflict of interest and at worst a possible abuse of his power.

Will the Prime Minister-

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

I ask the hon. member to put her question forthwith.

[Jan Brown, Reform, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Will the Prime Minister direct the ethics counsellor to investigate this serious matter?

[Marcel Massé, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada]

Mr. Speaker, first, there is clearly no conflict of interest because I have no pecuniary interest in the museum. Second, the decision to locate in Aylmer was taken by the Treasury Board in 1990.

The recent decision to permit the Museum of Nature to acquire more land and build up its own facilities was made. I am a member of Treasury Board and all members of Treasury Board know that my riding is Hull-Aylmer. If it had been placed on this side of the river, since all 12 ridings are occupied by Liberal members there is no doubt it would have been in the riding of a Liberal member.

There is no conflict of interest. There is no problem of impropriety. The Museum of Nature made the decision on its own. It was approved by Treasury Board. It was all done in an open and proper manner.

Collège Militaire Royal De Saint-Jean

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs.

In its first budget last February, the government announced it was closing the Collège militaire de Saint-Jean. Reacting to the ensuing controversy and to protests organized by the Official Opposition, the federal government started negotiations with the Government of Quebec and concluded an agreement in principle on July 19. This agreement was never ratified, and negotiations with Quebec are at a standstill.

Considering the uncertainty in which the people of Saint-Jean have been living for far too long, is the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs prepared to resume negotiations with the new government in Quebec, on the basis of the agreement in principle reached on July 19, and to confirm the military role of the college?

[Marcel Massé, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada]

Mr. Speaker, we have an agreement on the Collège militaire royal de Saint-Jean which was concluded between the previous government and our government. The agreement clearly sets out the civilian status of the Collège de Saint-Jean and is in the best interest of both governments and of the people of Saint-Jean.

The federal government has no intention of backtracking on the basic terms of the agreement as signed. What has not been determined is the implementation procedures. I will be sitting down very shortly with my Quebec counterpart to settle these final details which will implement the principles on which we have already agreed.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Speaker, are we to understand from the minister's attitude that his government is trying to withdraw from any plans to reopen the college, although it was responsible for closing it in the first place?

[Marcel Massé, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada]

Mr. Speaker, we certainly intend to stand by our commitments, and I hope the Government of Quebec intends to do the same.

The uncertainty is not caused by our attitude, because we continue to abide by the terms of the agreement we concluded. However, if those terms are not implemented, the one to blame for the uncertainty in the Saint-Jean region and for preventing the Collège de Saint-Jean from continuing operations in its new context will be the government that refuses to negotiate the details of the agreement.

Fort York

[Tony Ianno, Liberal, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Canadian Heritage.

The Toronto city council is considering a huge development that may not be sensitive to Toronto's Fort York which is of national historic importance. A 1909 agreement states that the fort must be preserved and maintained or the federal government could repossess both Fort York and the grounds of the CNE.

How is the government going to ensure that Fort York's historical integrity is maintained and that the site is accessible to Canadians as per the 1909 agreement?

[Michel Dupuy, Liberal, Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to confirm that the federal government remains firmly committed to the original conditions attached to the transfer of Fort York to the city of Toronto.

Both the Department of Public Works and Government Services and my department recognize the importance of Fort York to our national heritage and to tourism.

My colleague can rest assured that the minister of public works and myself will make sure that the provisions of the covenant are respected. This is an important piece of national heritage. We are devoted to it. We have offered to discuss it and we will support it.

Royal Commission On Aboriginal Peoples

[Dick Harris, Reform, Prince George—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the Royal Commission on Aboriginal Peoples was projected to cost $10 million. Now in fact it will come in at a staggering $58 million. At best the report will come in a year past its deadline and there is strong evidence of abuse in the $8 million research budget.

In light of the government's promise to cut government spending and in light of the government's promise of accountability, does the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development really expect the taxpayer to happily swallow the costs of the commission simply because the minister claims it was started by the previous government?

[Ron Irwin, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, first I will deal with the research. The chairman of the commission has been in contact with our department. Out of approximately 140 reports that were supposed to come in I believe 15 were looked at. Nine were judged as inadequate and five were non-existent.

Mr. Crombie is looking into that. I am waiting for his report, but 90 per cent of the reports that were paid for came in, were adequate and sufficient and were utilized. As far as the costs, I made my point last week.

The commission is made up of eminent people. I am sure their report is going to be a good report. On balance we have to make judgments and decisions. The former government decided to have a royal commission. If we had to decide it today, in today's environment with $58 million we would build 1,000 houses.

[Dick Harris, Reform, Prince George—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, this report will come in a year late at best. It will have a cost overrun of some $48 million. As the minister indicated a couple of days ago, they probably will not be able to implement some of the recommendations by the time they get it anyway.

In spite of all of this, the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development apparently thought this was something to joke about when he said the other day that maybe he would like to have a job on the commission but that he would have to stand in line.

My question for the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development is how does he ever expect the Canadian people to regain some trust in the government when he treats such a serious matter like this with such irresponsible statements?

[Ron Irwin, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, there are two parts to that. The first is that we will not implement. I find this odd coming from the Reform Party which has not yet voted for one piece of aboriginal legislation in 11 months either in this House or at the committee.

Talking about seriousness, we are treating this seriously. I think it is about time the Reform Party look at its obligations as members of Parliament and start treating the aboriginal people of this country seriously and not just an election issue for 10 per cent of the population.

Fisheries

[Yvan Bernier, Bloc, Gaspé, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans. For months the Gaspé Cured company has been asking the minister to officially recognize a label of origin, une appellation contrôlée , for the area and the process and product of Gaspé Cured. Yet, the federal minister allows companies in the Atlantic region to export their salt cod under the name Gaspé Cure, which creates some confusion on international markets and leads to losses of as much as $10 million for the Gaspé Peninsula company.

Could the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans tell us if he intends to accede to Gaspé Cured's request, and if so, how soon?

[Fernand Robichaud, Liberal, Secretary of State (Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Mr. Speaker, the minister is very conscious of the importance of the issue raised by the hon. member. Officials in the department are studying the request of Gaspé Cured. At the present time the expression is used not only for a grade of fish from a certain area, but also for a grade and a process used elsewhere. I can assure the hon. member that the minister is studying the matter carefully.

[Yvan Bernier, Bloc, Gaspé, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the request submitted by Gaspé Cured covers the process and the product.

My second question is for the Secretary of State. If the research done by the department-because I understand that they are doing research on the matter-is positive, and demonstrates that the product from the Gaspé is different from similar products in other areas, will the department give the people of the Gaspé Peninsula the right to a label of origin for their process and product?

[Fernand Robichaud, Liberal, Secretary of State (Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Mr. Speaker, as I was saying, the Department is devoting a lot of attention to this issue, and when the study is over the decision will certainly be to the advantage of fishermen in the Gaspé Peninsula, and of the industry in general.

Indian Affairs

[John Duncan, Reform, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I understand that the Metis nation of Saskatchewan has this week requested core funding from the Department of Canadian Heritage.

Will the minister assure this House that no core funding will be dispersed until the RCMP investigation is completed into the improper use of funds by the Metis nation of Saskatchewan and the current creditors have been paid by the trustee?

[Michel Dupuy, Liberal, Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Speaker, we are aware that there was an investigation into the funding of that society.

Some auditors looked at the books. They have been retained as counsel to the society. The two levels of government, the federal government and the provincial government, have agreed in light of the fact that Deloitte & Touche is advising the financing of the society to resume some degree of funding.

[John Duncan, Reform, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the Metis leadership is proposing a national legislative assembly, a capital in Batoche, Metis and Canadian citizenship and the national registry of Metis.

In light of this, can the federal interlocutor for the Metis tell this House why she has committed new funding to the Metis National Council at a cost of millions of dollars?

[George S. Rideout, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Natural Resources]

Mr. Speaker, as indicated by the minister of heritage, we are working with the Metis in order to assist them. We have not committed large sums of money on this project yet.