Debates of Dec. 12th, 1994

Low Level Flights

[Jean-Marc Jacob, Bloc, Charlesbourg, QC]

Mr. Speaker, speaking of this environmental study, how can the minister still contemplate spending $68.5 million on this project based on an environmental study whose process is biased and which is being boycotted by the Innu, Naskapi, Attikamek and Montagnais?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the study in question took eight years. It cost $11 million. It was the seminal work that was done showing the impact of low level flying on algae, on fauna and on individuals.

It is a landmark study. That study is being examined by the environmental assessment panel. Certain groups chose not to participate in those hearings. That is their choice. In fact the Government of Quebec chose not to participate in those hearings. That is its choice.

We have a process. It is being followed. When the panel reports we will assess its recommendations and adjust our policy accordingly.

Immigration And Refugee Board

[Ed Harper, Reform, Simcoe Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, when the refugee acceptance rate skyrocketed and questions were asked about the vice-chairman, the minister managed to dodge the bullet.

The minister appoints board members and he appointed more refugee lawyers, advocates and special interest groups than ever before. He is in charge.

When will the minister accept his responsibility and hold a public judicial inquiry into the Immigration and Refugee Board?

[Sergio Marchi, Liberal, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, the government appointed exemplary individuals to serve on the IRB.

The member wants to have a general, open season inquiry on what? Neither the government nor the minister gives direction on what is appropriate or not appropriate in terms of adjudication. We have not given any advice nor threshold levels on what should be adjudicated. That is the job of this independent quasi-judicial tribunal.

This individual is trying to imply that somehow the government sets the tone for adjudication. That clearly is not the case because that is not the business of government in the face of a quasi-judicial body.

[Ed Harper, Reform, Simcoe Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the Schelew affair has tainted the refugee determination process in Canada. How can Canadians be confident in the workings of the

IRB when the minister not only refuses to accept his responsibility but will not even allow a judicial inquiry to root out the wrongdoing?

Why is the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration reluctant to face the music and accept responsibility for the mess he helped to create?

[Sergio Marchi, Liberal, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, it is very obvious the member does not know the first thing about the IRB or how it operates.

It is painfully obvious they are not concerned about the IRB, the institution. They are not concerned about Canada's position vis-a-vis international commitments. This is the same party that wants to do away with the IRB and therefore break its international obligation. That is the position of his party.

That is not the position of the government party. It is not the position of decent, average Canadians across the country. The board is a good institution that will be made better.

The Disabled

[Réal Ménard, Bloc, Hochelaga—Maisonneuve, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Human Resources Development.

The whole world recently took note of the proclamation by the UN of the International Day for the Disabled. Among the worst problems faced by the disabled are the difficulty of integrating into the work environment and employment equity.

I ask the minister: What concrete measures did his government take to promote the integration of the disabled into both the public and the private sectors?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, if the member is kind enough to stay in the House at three o'clock he will see exactly what the government intends to do when it tables its new legislation on employment equity.

[Réal Ménard, Bloc, Hochelaga—Maisonneuve, QC]

Although that was not very substantial, Mr. Speaker, I will ask a supplementary question.

In his annual report, the Chief Commissioner of the Canadian Human Rights Commission, Max Yalden, said that the overall representation of the disabled in the federal administration is much lower than the estimated availability rate.

How does the government intend to eventually respect its own employment equity standards for the disabled? Please answer the question.

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for Infrastructure]

Mr. Speaker, the government has a program for helping disabled people to be able to adapt to work stations in the public service.

We are altering those work stations to help people. We want to attract more people not because of their disabilities but because a lot of them have a great amount of ability and a great deal to offer in the public service.

Education

[Beth Phinney, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Human Resources Development.

Some Canadians, including some students, some universities and now the Government of Ontario, are against proposals to eliminate cash transfers to the provinces.

In the face of these objections how does the minister justify his position?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, as we said in the green book our primary objective is to ensure that we have enhanced and added financing for post-secondary education over a long term that will sustain and improve post-secondary education.

For example, in the case of Ontario we know full well that over the next decade an additional billion dollars will be transferred to the province of Ontario through increased tax points. We want to ensure that money is fully distributed to students and universities to make sure that the provinces live up to their responsibility of ensuring that the federal transfers are effectively distributed and managed.

Beyond that, we have put in the green book a series of proposals which would add an additional $10 billion of financing for higher education so we could have new laboratories, new libraries, and new spaces for students.

Our purpose is to ensure that we have a better system. It does not help to have fear mongering by certain provincial ministers against this political process.

Government Appointments

[Jay Hill, Reform, Prince George—Peace River, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the Liberal gravy train is still chugging along. Its latest stop is at the Rene Cousineau station. The former Liberal MP

and close personal friend of the Prime Minister has just been appointed to the Canadian Pension Commission. For this privilege Canadian taxpayers will now be paying Mr. Cousineau a paltry $86,000 a year.

My question is for the Deputy Prime Minister. Is this what the Prime Minister meant when he said that all his appointments would be based on merit alone? If so, how is Liberal patronage any different from Tory patronage?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister has taken the point of view on appointments that the first priority should be quality candidates. We believe this is a quality appointment.

[Jay Hill, Reform, Prince George—Peace River, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister has said Canadians should look at the quality of people that he has appointed. The one thing all his patronage appointments do have in common is their close personal friendship with the Prime Minister.

LeBlanc, Gauthier, Bryden, Nixon, Carstairs, Wright, Longstaffe and Stevenson. Mr. Speaker, it is like a roll call for Santa's reindeer. In fact Rudolph would probably get a patronage appointment because of his red nose.

My supplementary question is for the Deputy Prime Minister. How is the continued use of partisan patronage compatible with the red book promise of integrity in government?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, I will pick out one of those appointments because the member lists several. I do not think there is a single person in the House who would disagree that probably one of the finest Canadians ever to serve in this Parliament was Jean-Robert Gauthier.

If he has an accusation to make about quality he should stand and make the accusation because we will stand behind people like Jean-Robert Gauthier. We will stand behind people like Rene Cousineau.

If the member has an accusation to make stand in the House and have the guts to make the accusation. Just because-

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

We all want to hear the question and the answer and the Deputy Prime Minister is answering. She has the floor.

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Hamilton East, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my only point is if the member suggested that somehow being a supporter of the Liberal Party prevents someone from being eligible for a governor in council appointment, obviously about 60 per cent of the population of Canada would be ineligible.

Ogilvie Mills

[Bernard St-Laurent, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Human Resources Development.

We have learned that, in the ongoing labour dispute at Ogilvie Mills, the company has used the services of a federal employment centre in Montreal to hire scabs to replace the strikers.

Since the minister maintains that he is committed to defending the interests of Ogilvie workers, can he confirm that Ogilvie Mills was able to hire scabs through a Canada Employment Centre for which he is responsible?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, I would be quite open to having the specific information documented and shown to me by the hon. member.

As he knows, I have met with the workers from Ogilvie. We have had a major discussion about the problems we face. As a result of those meetings I was able to secure a hearing before the Canada Labour Relations Board which has now established arbitration or mediation proceedings. Both parties are now coming together to see how they can resolve their differences and how they can look at the broader issue of labour laws.

We are responding to the needs of the situation. If the hon. member has further documentation that something is being done in our employment centres that should not be done, I will look into it and I will correct it.

[Bernard St-Laurent, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I want to reassure the minister. I will give him proof right after Oral Question Period.

Does the minister not agree that his failure to act and the role played by this Canada Employment Centre in the hiring of scabs only aggravate a labour dispute that has gone on too long already?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

No, Mr. Speaker. We met with the workers and as a result of representations by them and their union representatives we were were able to secure a proper hearing through the Canada Labour Relations Board. Mediation is now taking place with both parties. That is one way of solving the problem.

Some larger issues are involved. We are quite sensitive and aware of those issues. We are looking at a broad based review of the recommendations dealing with the Canada Labour Code and we hope to be able to present those to the House of Commons in the near future.

We are very concerned that we have fair and equitable labour relations and we think the federal government should take the lead in ensuring that.

Trade

[Charlie Penson, Reform, Peace River, AB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Deputy Prime Minister.

In Miami this weekend the Prime Minister embraced free trade with Chile and applauded the extension of free trade from the Arctic to Tierra del Fuego.

The international trade minister is reported to have said that Chile does not have to sign the side deals on labour and environment. There seems to be a contradiction between what the Prime Minister and his trade minister are saying on this issue. Canadians what to know who is speaking for the government.

Is the Prime Minister going to insist on the side deals or not?

[Roy MacLaren, Liberal, Minister for International Trade]

Mr. Speaker, the commitment is to take in the first instance the text of the agreement as the subject of the negotiation. Subsequently the side agreements on environment and labour could become an integral part of the negotiation. It is certainly our position that Chile would be expected to subscribe to the same rules as the three existing members of NAFTA.