Debates of May 30th, 1994

Canada Pension Plan

[Diane Ablonczy, Reform, Calgary North, AB]

Mr. Speaker, what really is going on is that some of the provinces are funding some of their activities with low interest federal money instead of with tax dollars. They are getting further into debt because of it. Also CPP premiums are now expected to rise to keep pace with payments of benefits.

Will the government agree to a moratorium on these low interest loans and ensure that from now on CPP surplus funds will be invested with an eye to a reasonable rate of return?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, I will quote directly the auditor general who says in his most recent report: "The CPP fund earns a reasonable rate of return on its investments".

If the hon. member is not prepared to take my word for it, perhaps she will take the word of the Auditor General. In the last report he underlined the fact that CPP funds are in fact being used for useful investments at a proper reasonable rate of return.

National Defence

[Christiane Gagnon, Bloc, Québec, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of National Defence.

The third annual report of the Department of Defence Advisory Council on Women in the Canadian Armed Forces indicated that harassment is still quite frequent within this organization. In an article published on May 21 in La Presse , it was mentioned that the changes to the harassment policy of the department included, among other things, a new complaint process which is not controlled by the military hierarchy.

Can the minister tell the House what concrete measures his department took to fight sexual harassment?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, there is no question that this has been underlined in a number of reports by the human rights commissioner and others in recent years. The armed forces is taking very strong steps to combat discrimination and harassment of women in particular in the armed forces.

In fact, this morning I was at a workshop in Gananoque of the spouses of Canadian forces personnel. They are working as a group within the department but also are volunteering their time to educate others in the wider military community to make sure this horrible trend of harassment in Canadian society does not spread any further or certainly any deeper in the Canadian military.

[Christiane Gagnon, Bloc, Québec, QC]

Mr. Speaker, is the Minister of National Defence in a position to appraise the new complaint process in use since last year and tell us how it was perceived by the women in the Canadian Armed Forces?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, this whole process is going quite well. I will make available to the hon. member either privately, or by giving a statement in the House or depositing a document at the table, all the measures we have taken in the last year to address these very serious problems.

Unemployment Insurance

[Jim Gouk, Reform, Kootenay West—Revelstoke, BC]

My question is for the Minister of Human Resources Development.

The lack of a chairman for the board of referees in Kootenay West-Revelstoke has denied residents the right of appeal on UIC problems. I raised the issue in the House with the Minister of Human Resources Development on March 11 and was promised speedy results. The latest word is nothing until at least next fall.

Why is this relatively simple process taking so long? What will the minister do to ensure the rights of the people in my riding are not put off any longer?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, the reason for taking our time is that we want to make sure we get the best person possible in the riding of Kootenay West-Revelstoke. It does take some time for consultations, but I can promise him we will certainly have an appointment in that post before the fall.

[Jim Gouk, Reform, Kootenay West—Revelstoke, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my supplemental is also for the Minister of Human Resources Development. It is a repeat of the question I asked the minister's parliamentary secretary on March 25, with no results.

Will the minister extend the term of the previous chairman, Rocco Mastrobuono, until this drawn out process finally comes to an end?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member's question to the parliamentary secretary was very effectively and properly answered. The government would like to make an appointment as soon as possible, as soon as we find the proper person. I have committed to the hon. member that we will look at his request with special dispatch. There will be a new chairman of the board of referees as soon as possible.

Small Businesses

[David Iftody, Liberal, Provencher, MB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Industry concerning the finance department's small business assistance report which was recently released.

The report attempts to allege that the banks have not created a credit crunch for small businesses. This report blatantly contradicts testimony to the industry committee presented by Canadian small business people from all regions of the country.

Who is telling the truth? Can the minister tell this House who we should believe, finance bureaucrats or the Canadian business people?

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, it is an easy call to make.

I am not sure what methodology was used in that report which was widely published last week. It was prepared for the previous government.

My view is, and I have heard the views of business people from across Canada as has the industry committee, that in fact there is a problem getting adequate financing for small business.

The government has identified the small and medium sized business community as the key factor in creating jobs. We have been discussing with the banks a code of conduct for lending practices which we hope we can agree to with them. A number of banks admitted to the committee and other places that in fact they were not doing as much as they could have done for the small business community. We are looking to the banks to respond to the challenge, particularly for knowledge based

industry, particularly for the needs of small business to get adequate funds to grow and expand. Those are the initiatives we are pursuing.

Export oriented, knowledge based small business is the key to Canada's future. We need the banks to be partners in ensuring that is what happens.

The Environment

[Benoît Sauvageau, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of the Environment.

Canada has not yet passed legislation to force ships sailing in Canadian waters to have a double hull. So the risk of spills causing considerable damage to the environment is still very high. Because of the St. Lawrence Seaway, Quebec is directly concerned by this absence of legislation. A chemical spill in our river would be catastrophic for the environment and our economy.

Can the minister, who announced on February 8 she would table her action plan before April 1st, explain to this House the delay of more than two months on an issue of such crucial importance for coastal regions in Quebec and Canada?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, the legislation on double hulls was passed in 1993.

[Benoît Sauvageau, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Mr. Speaker, if legislation was passed in 1993, how can the minister explain why it is taking her so long to implement a contingency plan in case of spills while her colleague, the Minister of Transport, plans to delay until the year 2015 the implementation of regulations concerning the transportation of dangerous goods in double hulled ships?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, I repeat, there is no delay. The double hull legislation was passed last year. I do not know where the Bloc member and his colleagues were at that time, but the legislation already exists.

Human Rights

[Jim Silye, Reform, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Justice. Among the rights listed in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms as guaranteed to all Canadians is the right to freedom of association, that is the right of Canadian citizens to choose for themselves those individuals or groups with whom they do or do not wish to associate.

Does the Minister of Justice support this right of freedom of association?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, that is the sort of question one would prefer to hear the supplementary to. Let me say without qualification that subject to the supplementary, of course I do.

[Jim Silye, Reform, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I will accept that waffle as a probable, yes.

In 1990 Norma Janzen of Langley, B.C., was fired from her job teaching children with learning disabilities. She had refused to join the B.C. Teachers' Federation fearing that a strike would force her to abandon her students, something she did not want to do.

This was a clear breach of Mrs. Janzen's right not to be forced to associate with the union. Mrs. Janzen has had to file a lawsuit to re-establish the freedom she has been denied.

Given the minister's response, will he instruct the Solicitor General and the Minister of Human Resources Development to seek intervener status in the case in support of Mrs. Janzen?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons and Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member has raised a matter which is of concern I am sure to the constituent in question, but this is something which falls completely under provincial jurisdiction. It is certainly open to the individual in question to challenge the matter in the courts and to seek the support of those who share her views, but I do not think this is a matter for which the federal government has a special role to play and certainly not the Solicitor General, even though I understand the member's concern.

Trade

[Don Boudria, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister for International Trade.

The minister is aware of the U.S. Secretary of Agriculture's tirades claiming, once again and quite wrongly, that Canada subsidizes grain exports.

Can the minister tell this House how successful our government is in convincing the U.S. government of the validity of our position?

[Roy MacLaren, Liberal, Minister for International Trade]

Mr. Speaker, the member may want to recall a number of instances in which both the minister of agriculture and I have made clear to the United States administration our complete

disagreement with their allegation that Canadian grain exports to the United States are subsidized.

We have taken every occasion to underline that basic position to the United States administration, as recently as my visit to Washington last week. We explored with the United States administration how they came to make this contention. We have agreed to meet with them further on this subject toward the end of June.

However, as the hon. member will know, the United States has imposed on itself a deadline of mid-July for a resolution of this issue in one way or the other.

Point Of Order

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I have two points of order. The first one concerns my political party.

During Question Period, the Deputy Prime Minister mentioned that the Bloc Quebecois had voted in this House against a motion to entrench the equality of both language communities in New Brunswick.

According to the Votes and Proceedings of this House, Bloc members voted for the motion, and their votes are duly recorded; only the Reform Party, that is Miss Grey, and Mr. Nowlan voted against it.

[The Speaker]

During Question Period and during debates, it happens at times that members have a different interpretation of events that are related. These are matters of debate, not points of order. I hope that members will be more discriminate in their choice of words and in what they say in the House.

This is not a point of order, it is a matter of debate. I am willing to listen to the member's second point of order.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my second point of order is to the effect that, during Question Period, we all clearly heard the Minister of Transport call the Leader of the Opposition a liar, whereas what I just said proves beyond any doubt that the Leader of the Opposition was absolutely right.

Mr. Speaker, not only was the Leader of the Opposition right, but on top of that, the word "liar" is unparliamentary.