House of Commons Hansard #157 of the 35th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was reform.
SupplyGovernment Orders
The Acting Speaker (Mr. Kilger)
I know that speeches can be passionate, but I would remind the House that all comments must be made through the Chair.
Patrick Gagnon Liberal Bonaventure—Îles-De-La-Madeleine, QC
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We must keep in mind that we can count on a secure market of almost 30 million people. It is important to stress that this market is very important for Quebec products.
That said, the Canadian federation remains a system where we give priority to financial equalization by helping those provinces always in need of financial or infrastructure support.
Let us look at Quebec, for instance. As you know, for the last year, Quebec will receive over $3 billion in equalization payments. Quebec comes out a winner as a result of belonging to the Canadian federation. I find it regrettable that they question federal government services such as Telefilm Canada, the Canada Council and Radio-Canada. The Bloc Quebecois is wrong to say that the system never worked for Quebec, when we know full well that Quebec receives nearly 40 per cent of federal budgets allocated to certain federal government services. That is something we must keep in mind, Mr. Speaker.
They also talk about international markets and say that things are not going well for Quebec, but we must remember that well-known Quebec businesses such as Bombardier and Tembec and many other new small businesses received help from several federal agencies. They received help because of the partnership with the federal government.
We must not forget that many of these officials are from Quebec and believe in Quebec products within Canada.
Jean-Paul Marchand Bloc Québec-Est, QC
Mr. Speaker, I can think of several possible ways of answering the muddled remarks of hon. member for Bonaventure-Îles-de-la-Madeleine.
He is telling us that Quebec always got what it asked for from the federal government. Quebec did get a number of things, but Quebec cannot be said to have been the big winner on things that mattered and here are two examples.
First, the most important industry in terms of economic development has been the automotive industry. As the people from out west will tell you, it has all been concentrated in Ontario. You know how important this industry is; it drives the economy. If you need another example, think of the energy sector in Canada.
What happened in that sector in terms of funding? Over the past decade, the federal government has invested $12 billion in the development of atomic energy in Ontario. And each year, another $100 million to $130 million in new funds are spent on atomic energy in Ontario. During this time, how much did the federal government invest in hydroelectricity in Quebec? Not a cent.
This is only one side of the story. We must think about what the people in Western Canada, and Alberta in particular, have gone through. Think how they we taken in by the federal government decision to tax oil produced in Alberta. They are certainly justified in thinking that the federal system is unfair, because we are dealing with investments made essentially to serve the petty interests of that system.
Benoît Tremblay Bloc Rosemont, QC
Mr. Speaker, I think that when they read the motion introduced by the Reform Party, many Canadians, Quebecers and foreign investors would agree.
I think the target to reduce the deficit to 3 per cent of GDP within two years is an absolute minimum. In fact, it will not be that difficult since this year, the deficit is expected to be two or three billion less than forecast.
The trouble with the Reform Party's proposal is that it is accompanied by a series of proposals to reorganize the government. We agree with some of them but on the whole, it reflects an ideological vision that focuses on government operations and government spending and ignores all other aspects of the economy.
To Reform members, any government is a problem, except for policemen and prisons, because if we look at how they want to amend the Criminal Code, soon 10 per cent of all Canadians will be in prison and they will need accommodation. Pretty soon it will be like California, where the biggest budget item is not health care but police forces and prisons. In Canada and Quebec, we still prefer to see more money spent on health care and education than on prisons and police forces.
They forgot to include a huge prison construction program in their budget.
SupplyGovernment Orders
The Acting Speaker (Mr. Kilger)
Order. I appreciate the fact that in the course of their speeches, members may wish to refer to certain texts, but they are not supposed to use props.
Benoît Tremblay Bloc Rosemont, QC
Mr. Speaker, I think people realize I was referring to the budget proposals of the Reform Party. As I was saying, they forgot to include a huge prison construction program which would probably be the only job creation component of their party's platform.
Of course we are concerned. I think we have reason to be, and we share their concerns as we share those of many Canadians.
We must understand that, at present, the Canadian economy is operating at about 92 per cent of its potential without inflation. This means that there is room for another 8 per cent increase in production without causing any increase in inflation in Canada. How did that come about? You must know where you are coming from to know where you are going. It is simple: the 1980s saw two major recessions aimed at breaking the cycle of inflation. Because of a total lack of co-operation between the various regions and economic agents in Canada, the rate of inflation was allowed to rise during the 1970s and into the early 1980s, when it averaged 12 per cent. It was just plain insane. The Bank of Canada used the big stick because people capable of managing the Canadian economy in co-operation, like in Germany and several other countries, could not be found in this place. That is why the big stick of interest rates had to be used.
So, interest rates skyrocketed and precipitated a major recession, which in turn caused unemployment to increase sharply and, of course, inflation to fall from an average of 12 per cent to 5 per cent. Economic recovery was under way, but we never recovered from the jobs lost. In 1989, the Bank of Canada decided once again to aim for zero-inflation, at a time when the average rate of inflation was about 5 per cent. It did meet its target, but at what price? By jacking up interest rates so as to stifle the economy in Quebec and Canada. So much so that our production rate fell down to 90 per cent. It fell so drastically that for the next three years, the economy grew only marginally. There was no real economic recovery in Canada while the United States had already recovered.
So, this is a duly-considered policy, because of the lack of co-operation in this country. This must be pointed out, even though it is not at the forefront any more, now that inflation has been curbed for a little while, but this inability to co-operate, to work in co-operation in this country is still a problem.
Think back to the 1980s when the Economic Council of Canada and other agencies made it clear economic co-operation was urgently needed in order to curb inflation. As some of you may remember, at the beginning of his mandate, Brian Mulroney organized a great Canadian forum to initiate a consultation process, which was a failure, but achieved his inflation-fighting goals by using the stick approach. Ontario was very prosperous at the time but it let its spending get out of control and now finds itself saddled with an annual deficit of $10 billion. We were never able to make people listen to reason.
Part of the problem is that we have to realize our economic potential as soon as possible without causing inflation. That is why we need economic growth. We see that, in the last year, government revenue went up by between 7 per cent and 8 per cent because more people are working and therefore paying more taxes. UI benefits went down not only because of the cuts but also because more people are working. We still have a way to go before realizing our full potential.
On the other hand, the actions taken by the Bank of Canada and the stick approach that was used have made the Canadian dollar very volatile. Our dollar went from 69 cents to 87 cents, then back to 70 cents. We are playing with foreign investors' nerves by allowing the value of our currency to fluctuate by 25 per cent. This does not make any sense. We must hold economic consultations so that these fluctuations can be avoided.
If Canada's interest rates are what they are today, it is partly because of the debt, but also because confidence in the Canadian dollar has been shaken by our inflation-fighting policy.
I am not saying that it would have been better not to do anything about inflation. The problem is that we must use different methods to fight it. Many people say that we are living above our means. This is partly true. There is a very simple way to find out: one only has to look at our balance of international
payments. And now, with our dollar at 70 cents, we have restored that balance, to a great extent.
The challenge for investors and Canadians alike is to determine if we can hold on long enough. Our tourism deficit has gone down, and this year we will have a very substantial trade surplus of $17 billion, but we still have a cumulative debt on which we pay about $30 billion annually in interest payments to foreign investors.
Even if we start living within our means, compared with other countries, we have to keep paying, because at one time we spent more than we could afford, and now we are stuck with interest payments we have to pay abroad. This situation has to be turned around as well.
What makes people worried? Why was Moody's worried last week, for instance? Did Moody's say: Listen, social programs are too expensive? Not at all. Moody's said: Structural reorganization is necessary. For instance, there are practically no more fishermen left, but the Department of Fisheries and Oceans still has the same number of employees. The department has more employees that we have cod. This does not make sense.
The same thing happened at the Department of Energy, Mines and Resources. The national energy policy was abolished in the early eighties, but they kept the same number of employees they had when they were still managing this energy policy.
The federal government has increased its involvement in a wide range of sectors-and not only in areas under provincial jurisdiction-to the extent that it is no longer economically feasible. We need a major reorganization, and of course we are looking forward to the budget.
Relations with the provinces are a problem, not only because structures are unwieldy but because they are inefficient in some areas. Years ago we came to the conclusion that manpower training was essential, and in this particular area there was no agreement at all between the federal government and the provinces-and not just Quebec-and there is no way we can act effectively.
Of course in Quebec the situation is even worse. Why? For the simple reason that Quebec was Canada's first industrial heartland. This means we had more mature industries in the railway sector, shipbuilding, and so forth, than in other provinces. When these industries started shrinking, new industries came in. There was a very substantial restructuring of our economy, but we did not have manpower training to ease the transition for a machinist from the railway sector to the aeronautics industry. There were no resources to provide for that transition. The situation was worse in Quebec for the very simple reason that we had a much larger share of Canada's old economy.
The problem is now becoming acute in Ontario, because while Quebec's economy has largely been restructured, Ontario has a problem with its own mature and very mature industries like the automobile industry, where like recovery is temporary, and the steel industry. They now have to cope with problems that Quebec experienced 10, 15, or 20 years ago, problems we were never able to solve with the help of the federal government.
Reorganization is needed, and here I am speaking from the Canadian, the federalist point of view. I am not talking about being capable of developing our aspirations as a society. I talked about it this week in the debate on the Young Offenders Act, when referring to the fact that Quebec's perspective was entirely different from that of the present Minister of Justice. I could have elaborated on this, but there is a big problem, even if we wanted to stay in Canada.
Dennis Mills LiberalParliamentary Secretary to Minister of Industry
Mr. Speaker, I would like to begin by saying to the member for Rosemont that I too share his view that the obsession with ratcheting inflation down to zero per cent during the last four years for all intents and purposes killed the economy of this country. It broke the entrepreneurial spirit of thousands of small and medium size business men and women, which ultimately led to unemployment numbers that we are still fighting to cope with and put people back to work.
My concern is the fact that the member did not put forward some specific recommendations on how we can fire up that economy again. I realize that the member talked about excessive numbers of public servants when we have done some downsizing in energy and other departments of government. The cost by having those public servants working or the savings that would have been made is not enough to really get this economy going again.
I wonder if the member would put a couple of specific recommendations on the floor of this House on how we could fire up this economy and get people back to work. As I have said, it is important to have fiscal discipline in this country but my concern is that we are not spending enough creative time in dealing with constructive ways, creative ways on how we put the 2.2 million people who are unemployed in this country back to work.
Could the member put a couple of specific ideas on the floor of the House?
Benoît Tremblay Bloc Rosemont, QC
Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my colleague for his question. Given our time constraints, I would refer him quickly to the ten recommendations by the Bloc Quebecois which he may read himself instead of my listing them now.
I think it is clear that if we want everyone to put his shoulder to the wheel, and that is what these recommendations are based on, people must share the same concept of fairness. In our recommendations, clearly, we denounced tax situations which are totally unacceptable. I think fairness is the essential foundation upon which dialogue and the will to work together are based. I am referring for instance to family trusts, to the delay in reviewing the Income Tax Act in regard to resource companies, and to the fact that they are now to be given up to $1.2 billion. It is therefore an issue of fairness.
There is also an issue of effectiveness which involves occupational training first of all. Even if jobs are presently being created in certain sectors, we know that occupational training must definitely proceed at a faster pace to allow people to take those jobs.
My time is up, Mr. Speaker; as you can see, I could have gone on a few minutes more.
SupplyGovernment Orders
The Speaker
My colleague, you retain the right, if you wish, to resume speaking after question period.
It being 2 p.m., pursuant to Standing Order 30(5), the House will now proceed to Statements by Members, pursuant to Standing Order 31.
Rose-Marie Ur Liberal Lambton—Middlesex, ON
Mr. Speaker, as we approach budget day I would like to convey the concerns of my constituents of Lambton-Middlesex.
Taxpayers in my riding say they simply cannot absorb any more tax increases. While they can appreciate that this year's budget must be a tough one it should not be at the further expense of middle class Canadians.
On behalf of my constituents I would ask that the Minister of Finance not raise personal income tax rates. He should also note that for millions of Canadians RRSPs will be their main source of retirement income. The minister should focus instead on meaningful spending cuts and more efficient delivery of government programs and services.
The residents of my riding are very aware of the pressing need to reduce and eventually eliminate Canada's deficit, but there has to be fairness in accomplishing this goal. If the sacrifices are spread fairly then I am convinced that all Canadians will support us in our efforts to put this country's financial house in order.
Pierre De Savoye Bloc Portneuf, QC
Mr. Speaker, many debates in this House have revealed how reticent and hesitant federal politicians are to call attention, with figures to back them up, to the shameful way too many francophones are treated outside Quebec.
Federalists never mention the 38 per cent rate of assimilation of Franco-Ontarians, the 75 per cent rate of assimilation of francophones in British Columbia or even the 8 per cent figure for Acadians. These unfortunate data clearly contradict the claims of the supporters of federalism, who say nothing about the fact that these francophones must continue to fight for schools, health services, government services and cultural services.
The rest of Canada continues to watch indifferently as francophones are assimilated, while federal politicians continue making unfounded claims about the havoc Quebec sovereignty will wreak on these communities.
This is disgraceful and cowardly.
Darrel Stinson Reform Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Mr. Speaker, in January I was starting a public meeting at Sicamous in my riding when a woman handed me a bag full of yellow ribbons. She said that the abduction and murder of Melanie Carpenter in mid-afternoon from her place of work was something Canadians should remember by wearing or displaying a yellow ribbon.
I then spoke about private member's Bill C-240 which would make it easier to designate convicted criminals as dangerous offenders. Had Bill C-240 been in force, Melanie Carpenter would be with her loved ones today.
Last week I received a fax from Sicamous saying that there are hundreds of yellow ribbons along the Trans-Canada Highway and down Highway 97A. People want to see a highway of yellow ribbons reaching all the way to Ottawa to prompt Parliament to act now.
I ask all hon. members to speed Bill C-240 through the justice committee and third reading so that others are protected from the tragic fate of Melanie Carpenter.
Tom Wappel Liberal Scarborough West, ON
Mr. Speaker, I would like to extend my congratulations to the students and staff of W. A. Porter Collegiate Institute in my riding of Scarborough
West on the grand opening of the greening of this institute. Under the environmental citizenship initiative, Environment Canada and Future Watch Environment and Development Partners have worked together to carry out this project.
What will be accomplished is the creation of a frog pond, the naturalization of school grounds, collection of indigenous tree seeds for growth in the school greenhouse for replanting in the wild, and stream clean-up.
This project is possible because of the support of community partners, in particular Canada Trust's Friends of the Environment, the Ontario Secondary School Teachers Federation and of course, the students and staff of W. A. Porter Collegiate Institute who are translating their environmental concerns into tangible action.
Gurbax Malhi Liberal Bramalea—Gore—Malton, ON
Mr. Speaker, there are over 550 licensed taxi and limousine drivers working from Pearson International Airport.
Insurance increases of 21 per cent, cost increases of 6 per cent and a 25 per cent reduction in fares are creating a situation where operators may be forced to apply for unemployment insurance. The real threat to the livelihood of these operators however is the illegal practice of scooping, the theft of business by unlicensed, uninsured illegal operators.
I urge the Solicitor General and the Minister of Transport to redraft the government airport concession operations regulations, put teeth into the enforcement process and curb the theft of an estimated $6.5 million in legitimate business.
Morris Bodnar Liberal Saskatoon—Dundurn, SK
Mr. Speaker, I wish to bring the attention of the House to the accomplishments of Grace Pine, a constituent of mine. Grace Pine recently received the Saskatoon citizen of the year award for her contributions to Saskatoon.
Grace Pine has had a distinguished career, including the directorship of the laboratory at the Fort Qu'Appelle Tuberculosis Sanatorium and subsequently volunteering with the Saskatchewan Anti-Tuberculosis League. In 1967, Mrs. Pine helped to found the Saskatoon chapter of Save the Children Canada.
The volunteer organizations which have benefited from her time and support include the Saskatchewan Council for International Development, the Canadian Catholic Organization for Development and Peace, the Saskatchewan Environmental Society, and the Saskatoon Native Theatre.
A colleague wrote of Grace Pine that she has been a role model for many who believe that we live in a global community and that we have a responsibility to those who have less than we do. These are truly words by which we should all live.
Maurice Godin Bloc Châteauguay, QC
Mr. Speaker, Quebec's seniors federation or Fédération de l'âge d'or du Québec yesterday added its voice to the debate of the draft bill on sovereignty at the Commission des aînés sur l'avenir du Québec.
I will repeat the warning the federation gave to all those using scare tactics, to the effect that it hopes the debate on the draft bill would be conducted in all openness and honesty and that the use of fear, real mental cruelty, whatever form it takes, would not be any part of it.
Seniors remember the fear campaigns and alarmist speeches of the 1980 referendum campaign. Never again will we be victims of this blackmail, with the cheque bearing the maple leaf as the ransom. Everyone pays for this cheque with their taxes.
Chuck Strahl Reform Fraser Valley East, BC
Mr. Speaker, after 25 years of negative experience, affirmative action is under fire all over the United States. In June the Supreme Court may discard it altogether because of the growing body of evidence against it. However, in Canada the Liberals plod ahead in spite of evidence and public opinion proposing expansion of employment equity provisions through Bill C-64.
Employment equity encourages a mentality of victimization among Canadians. It harms morale in the public service and damages the self-esteem of designated groups. It poisons the workplace when jobs are awarded on the basis of sex or skin colour. Employment equity is costly and it overlaps with provincial and municipal programs.
While the government should ensure equality of opportunity and not equality of results, this government is now legislating offensive practices of discrimination.
Employment equity is unjust. It is expensive. It will not work. It is bad policy. Though well intentioned, it is wrong for Canada and the government must shelve this discriminatory legislation. No more C-64.
David Iftody Liberal Provencher, MB
Mr. Speaker, Mushing for Miracles is a community based campaign consisting of dogsledders from Ontario, Manitoba, and even Italy. They are on a 1,200 kilometre trek through communities in southern Manitoba to raise money for cancer research and camps for children with cancer.
I wish to thank Bob Draward and Doris Prefontaine from Lorette and all the people in the participating communities such as Lac du Bonnet, Whitemouth, Hadashville, Richer, Steinbach, St. Pierre-Jolys, Morris, Altona and Lorette who made financial contributions to make the challenges of young cancer victims less of a burden.
I want to let those children know that they are not alone in their battle. The people of Provencher are there to stand with them.
George S. Rideout Liberal Moncton, NB
Mr. Speaker, I would like to bring to the attention of the House this government's commitment to energy efficiency. At the same time Canadians are concerned with a secure supply of reasonably priced energy and the environmental impacts of energy supply, transportation and use.
In an effort to move toward sustainable development these objectives must be balanced. Improved energy efficiency can contribute greatly to meeting our long term environmental goals.
We have begun the process to improve efficiency in our facilities through the federal buildings initiative. Cabinet ministers are committed to this initiative. The Minister of Natural Resources has undertaken to make Natural Resources Canada the most energy efficient department in the federal government.
At the same time, we must strike a balance between economic development and improvements, for the environment's sake. With state-of-the-art technology and co-operation from all sectors, we can map out a strategy for Canada and rise to these important challenges.
Don Boudria Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON
Mr. Speaker, the riding of Glengarry-Prescott-Russell is saddened by the loss of one of its most eminent citizens, the Hon. Louis P. Cécile. A native of Tecumseh, Ontario, and lawyer by trade, Mr. Cécile was first elected to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario in 1948. He was re-elected in 1951, 1955, 1959 and 1963. During his long political career, he held three different cabinet portfolios.
After this illustrious career, he became an Ontario provincial court judge, a position he filled until he retired in 1980. On behalf of all of my constituents, I extend my heartfelt sympathy to his son Pierre and his daughters, Louise and Anne-Marie. Through his deeds, Louis Cécile will go down in the region's annals of history. His name will live on in our memory forever.
Pierre Brien Bloc Témiscamingue, QC
Mr. Speaker, I want to denounce the behaviour of the Council for Canadian Unity, an organization generously funded by the federal government, which is bent on systematically keeping a record of the witnesses who speak before the regional commissions on sovereignty. We do not know what exactly the council hopes this kind of tactic will achieve, but we note that those who defend Canadian unity continue to be obsessed with compiling lists of sovereignists.
This practice is utterly reprehensible in a democratic society and is all the more unsettling, since it is being used when democracy is being expressed at its purest, during prereferendum consultations.
No democratic society can stand for the use of intimidation tactics to erode the right of its citizens to freedom of speech. These tactics are worthy of Big Brother and have no place in Quebec and Canada.
Allan Kerpan Reform Moose Jaw—Lake Centre, SK
Mr. Speaker, a certain member of this House has recently reminded Canadians that he was Minister of Finance during the years 1977, 1978 and 1979. The budget deficits for those three years were $10.4 billion, $12.6 billion, and $11.5 billion for a three year total of $34.5 billion.
One can add up the budget deficits from 1976 all the way back to 1954, the first post-war budget deficit year, and only get to a total of $25.9 billion.
History tells us that two Liberal finance ministers went on a spending spree and overspent more in three years than their predecessors had overspent in 21 years. Canadians turfed that irresponsible government out in 1979.
Do you know who the Minister of Finance was for the 1978 and 1979 budgets? Why of course, it was the present Prime Minister. This country cannot afford the kind of experience that was brought to us by the present Prime Minister.
Chris Axworthy NDP Saskatoon—Clark's Crossing, SK
Mr. Speaker, today I raise the issue of the Correctional Service of Canada's policy on strip searches of women prisoners and the atrocious mishandling of some of these women by male corrections officers at Kingston's prison for women on April 22, 1994.
Following an investigation by CSC officials, it was suggested that appropriate measures were taken in using the riot squad which includes male prison staff to strip and search the women and their cells.
CSC's policy states that searches should be conducted by members of the same sex, except in cases of institutional emergency. It is now clear that the female prisoners behaved in a passive manner and offered no physical resistance. This is a complete contradiction to the official version of events offered by the CSC which is nothing more than a one-sided whitewash of the incidents that occurred.
I am pleased that the Solicitor General has finally acted today to investigate this serious question. Serious issues still exist with regard to the lack of energy and speed with which the commissioner of the Correctional Service of Canada and the Solicitor General pursued this matter.
The Solicitor General needs to pay much more careful attention to the activities of the Correctional Service of Canada.
Jane Stewart Liberal Brant, ON
Mr. Speaker, after having the opportunity to read what the Reform Party really plans for Canada, I believe there are some serious questions Canadians must ask about their alternative budget.
What is the true impact going to be for Canadian seniors? At what income level will benefits start to be clawed back, $40,000, $30,000 or $20,000? How can Reform members talk about national standards on one hand while large cuts to equalization payments will restrict the ability of some provinces to deliver similar levels of service to their citizens?
How do those 86 per cent of Canadians with incomes below $20,000 who already do not make contributions to RRSPs find the resources to make sufficient contributions to cover unemployment insurance, retirement, post-secondary education and personal catastrophes? And will these resources be sufficient during tough economic times?
Canadians understand that tough problems do not always have simple solutions. I hope Canadians ask these and many other questions so that they can understand the impact these proposals may have on them, their families and the very essence of Canadian society.
Bernard Patry Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
Mr. Speaker, the men and women who served our country in the two world wars have cause for concern today. They have just learned that an independent Quebec would not pay them the veterans' pension.
Jean-Pierre Jolivet, the member for Laviolette and Parti Quebecois whip said, in the context of the proceedings of the Mauricie-Bois-Francs regional commission, that Quebec would not be paying all pensions. Quebec would not be paying the veterans' pension, for example.
In addition to the veterans' pension, the member for Laviolette could perhaps tell people now what other pension plans the government of an independent Quebec would be dropping.