Debates of May 4th, 1995

Members Of Parliament Retiring Allowances Act

[John Harvard, Liberal, Winnipeg—St. James, MB]

Madam Speaker, it is easy to attack the political profession. There are a lot of good people in this institution. I do not know the people from the Reform Party very well but I suspect there are some very good people over there as well. How can we move forward when people over and over again do everything they can to besmirch the political profession?

There is one other point that I want to make. Members of the Reform Party constantly chant this line that the MPs pension plan is twice what is found in other sectors, particularly in the private sector. They never talk about the need for a package of remuneration for MPs.

If MPs had a normal career, if MPs started at age 22 or 23 and were in their profession for 30 to 40 years, do we really think their pension plan would have to be much different from those in other sectors? Of course not.

Why is our plan different? It is because most of us come to this career in our forties. For example, take someone who is in their forties. They have a family. They have children in school, perhaps in university. For them to come into public life we want them to give up their careers. We want them to give up their private pension plan. When they come into public life we want them to take all the risks and absolutely nothing will be done on the part of the Canadian government to assuage or mitigate the risk that they face.

When banks arrive at loan rates they take risks into account. The Canadian public must do the same. I am trying to put the pension plan in context. This is the thing they never do. The member who just spoke should reflect on the points I have made and should stop bad mouthing this profession. This life is difficult enough without the kinds of contributions we get from those people over there.

[Charlie Penson, Reform, Peace River, AB]

Madam Speaker, one of the comments by the member for Winnipeg-St. James was that year in and year out he has heard the Reform Party being cynical and talking about how bad politicians are in this country. It seems to me that we have not been around for all that long, but the Canadian public has had some cynicism with regard to politicians for quite a while. Probably a lot of that was during the time he was on this side of the House.

The hon. member has a reputation for being one of the worst members in terms of attack, yet he is talking about the Reform Party. We hear personal attacks every day from him. I think he is totally out of line.

If he did not want to run for office, nobody forced him. He can retire.

[Peter Adams, Liberal, Peterborough, ON]

Madam Speaker, I am very pleased to have this opportunity to speak to Bill C-85 dealing with MPs pensions.

I am particularly pleased because it was the very first topic I addressed after I was elected, and the first time that I was in caucus. I am a strong supporter of reform of MPs pensions. I am a strong supporter of the red book commitments to that reform. I am also a strong believer in the fact that what MPs do is extremely important in a symbolic sense. It is very important that we lead by example.

I want to speak principally today to the particularly stringent double dipping components of this legislation. They are much more stringent than I had envisaged when I first read the red book.

Before I do that I would like to say that to me, one of the most critical things in giving some order to the MPs pension plan was to establish an age of retirement. It seems to me that no pension plan can be fully financially viable unless it has a fixed age of retirement. We cannot calculate, for example, how many MPs might retire at 25 or 30 or something like that. Therefore, it is critical for the financial viability of this plan that there be a reasonable retirement age.

I personally favour 65 as the retirement age. That is the normal retirement age for the Canada pension plan. I realize that in many occupations there are earlier retirement ages, and I realize that under some circumstances a person can draw CPP benefits before the age of 65. I feel that 65 is the most appropriate age for this plan.

The establishment of 55 as a fixed age of retirement, as a fixed age at which a member of Parliament can draw this pension, is a huge step forward in giving the plan financial viability. I am very pleased that has been done.

I also support the slower rates of accrual of the pension. The accrual results in a 20 per cent saving. It is important that the cost of this plan to the taxpayer be reduced.

During the debate on double dipping it was pointed out that strong pension plans are a normal feature of employment in government service, whether that government service be at the local level, the provincial level or the federal level. It was often pointed out for example, that the military has a very strong pension plan which is designed to enable its members to retire early.

It appears that re-employment of public service employees by the government after they have taken an early retirement is quite common. During the debate on double dipping it was pointed out that people in the public service everywhere have the opportunity of going back to work in the area from which they retired if there is a suitable vacancy. I do not want to open the entire question now, but I must say that I have some sympathy with that.

[The Speaker]

My colleague, of course, will have the floor immediately following question period.

It being two o'clock, pursuant to Standing Order 30(5), we will now proceed to statements by members.

Elspeth Hogg

[Andy Mitchell, Liberal, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I rise in the House today to congratulate Elspeth Hogg of Utterson in my riding of Parry Sound-Muskoka. Mrs. Hogg has been selected as one of just 23 recipients of the 1995 Canada volunteer award medal and certificate of honour for her contributions to her community.

Mrs. Hogg is recognized for serving on the first board of the Muskoka Women's Advocacy Group and for serving as chair from 1984 to 1989. She is credited as instrumental in the establishment of Muskoka Interval House, a much needed women's shelter, and for recruiting countless volunteers and donators of supplies.

In addition to this work, Mrs. Hogg served the Elizabeth Fry Society, the Hospital for Sick Children, the YWCA and the Boy Scouts as well as volunteering on boards such as the Canadian Corrections Association and the Canadian Mental Health Association.

I wholeheartedly congratulate Mrs. Hogg for her tremendous achievement and for giving so freely of herself. We are all very proud.

Atlantic Groundfish Strategy

[René Canuel, Bloc, Matapédia—Matane, QC]

Mr. Speaker, clearly, the Minister of Human Resources Development has lost control of the Atlantic Groundfish Strategy. Not only is this strategy not creating jobs, but it is encouraging workers to quit their jobs to take advantage of the benefits of the program.

Processing plants are complaining about the departure of a number of their employees and of the costs this entails. The minister prefers to stick his head in the sand and continue extolling the virtues of his program. The representatives of the fishermen even came to Ottawa last week to complain about the program's ineffectiveness.

The minister must recognize that his program is not working, that he is gobbling up billions and that the federal government on its own is incapable of resolving the Atlantic fishing crisis.

Taxation

[Sharon Hayes, Reform, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Mr. Speaker, millions of Canadians have just completed their income tax returns for yet another year. Every year families and individuals go through the tortuous process of calculating and completing their returns in a diligent and timely manner. The process has become so complex that millions are now frustrated by the exercise.

Recently I received a call from a retired constituent who has become so frustrated that he has finally had to enlist the help of a tax professional to prepare his return.

This practice is far from unique. Increasing numbers of Canadians seek outside assistance as they battle the ever increasing complexities of our national revenue labyrinth.

Why should taxpayers, already at the limit of their tax tolerance, have to pay additional moneys for assistance in filing their tax returns?

There is an urgent need to simplify the tax system. Reform's flat tax would do just that. It is fair, efficient, equitable, and would greatly ease the burden of the long suffering taxpayers of Canada.

India

[Jag Bhaduria, Liberal, Markham—Whitchurch-Stouffville, ON]

Mr. Speaker, during the recent Easter break I had the privilege of visiting India to meet with various senior government officials.

India is a country that is growing rapidly. The economic development that I personally witnessed was phenomenal. The economy is booming at an extraordinary rate of 8 per cent per year. India is rapidly becoming an economic tiger of all developing countries.

Throughout my meetings with cabinet ministers of the Indian government and the chief ministers of several important provinces the discussion always centred on developing closer trade ties between Canada and India. Canadian expertise and technology combined with India's pool of manpower would create tremendous job opportunities for both countries.

This desire was not only expressed by senior politicians but by industrialists I had the pleasure to meet with as well. The interest is there, and I call on the government to work diligently toward developing an increased trade level with India. There are limitless opportunities and there can be no doubt that both countries will greatly benefit.

Elizabeth Fry Week

[Paddy Torsney, Liberal, Burlington, ON]

Mr. Speaker, tomorrow national Elizabeth Fry Week is being launched on Parliament Hill. It takes place every year, the week preceding Mother's Day, to acknowledge the fact that the majority of Canadian women who come into conflict with the law are mothers.

This year the week's theme is alternatives to incarceration, focusing on new avenues in corrections for women and working to enhance public awareness and education regarding the circumstances of women involved in the criminal justice system.

Most women at the time of their incarceration are the sole supporters of their families. When mothers are sentenced to prison their children are sentenced to separation. Elizabeth Fry Week ends on Mother's Day to draw attention to this reality.

Let us show our support for the hard work of the volunteers and employees of the Canadian Association of Elizabeth Fry Societies. We are welcome to the Commonwealth Room tomorrow between 9 and 5 to talk about these important issues.

I thank the volunteers for their dedication to justice in Canada.

Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty

[Jesse Flis, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Mr. Speaker, over 160 nations are currently meeting at the United Nations in New York to decide the fate of the most important international arms control agreement in force today, the nuclear non-proliferation treaty, the NPT.

Canada supports the indefinite unconditional extension of the treaty for three essential reasons. First, the NPT establishes a barrier to the further proliferation of nuclear weapons. Second, the treaty provides the framework for peaceful trade in nuclear technology by establishing a system of effective international safeguards. Third, the treaty commits the nuclear weapons states to work toward nuclear disarmament.

Those who argue that the NPT should not be made permanent keep open the possibility of its disappearance at some future point. This must not happen. We are now firmly on the road to a world with fewer nuclear weapons.

On Friday, Canada will table the resolution, joined by more than 80 nations, for the indefinite extension of the NPT. The treaty has served us well for 25 years. Now is the time to permanently enshrine the benefits for future generations.

1939 Casino Band

[John Richardson, Liberal, Perth—Wellington—Waterloo, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to salute members of the 1939 Casino Band of Stratford, Ontario.

Band members have enriched the lives of citizens for five decades with their musical talent. These musicians originally played for community dances in the 1940s but now perform voluntarily for events throughout my riding.

The band can frequently be found performing at hospitals, nursing homes and various community events, including the Stratford Festival's annual garden party. For the past two summers the band has performed afloat on the Avon River for thousands of tourists who visit Stratford.

These men should be commended for bringing such musical delight to our community. Not only is it one of the most talented jazz bands in Ontario but it is one of the most kind spirited.

The members of the 1939 Casino Band include Jack Hayter, Jack Smith, Mervin Doerr, Robert Hayter, Bill Fowler, Walter Gladding and Andy Munroe.

I wish band members many more years of music and laughter together.

National Marine Strategy

[Ghislain Lebel, Bloc, Chambly, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday, the Standing Committee on Transport submitted its report on the national marine strategy. Disregarding the principles of caution and prevention with respect to the environment, the committee questioned compulsory pilotage, particularly in the St. Lawrence and in the Seaway.

This proposal is contrary to the worldwide trend to expanding pilotage areas and raising safety standards. A catastrophe like that of the Exxon Valdez would be an environmental disaster for the St. Lawrence River and the Great Lakes.

The Liberal majority on the Standing Committee on Transport, with its concern for cost cuts and free competition, has completely set aside environmental concerns. We hope that the Minister of the Environment will use her influence with the Minister of Transport to ensure his decisions reflect the principle of sustainable development.

Rights Of Grandparents

[Daphne Jennings, Reform, Mission—Coquitlam, BC]

Mr. Speaker, sometimes in our lives we are given the opportunity to help those who have spent their lives helping us, those who have worked hard, paid their taxes regularly and have been responsible Canadian citizens. Many of them fought in the second world war and risked their lives for each one of us to live in peace.

These law-abiding citizens have paid their way. We have our health programs, UIC, workers' compensation and good working conditions today because this group of Canadians worked for them.

We, the MPs of the 35th Parliament, have the opportunity to do what our constituents sent us here to do: to work together for the good of Canadians. I am speaking of an issue which is of importance to all our constituents, many of whom will be closely watching the results of our vote. It is a non-partisan issue, a Canadian issue.

Please help me to give our Canadian children the opportunity to see and visit with their grandparents. I ask for support on Bill C-232.

Canadian National Railway

[Len Taylor, NDP, The Battlefords—Meadow Lake, SK]

Mr. Speaker, it is bad enough that the Liberal government is planning to privatize rather than rebuild and enhance the services of Canadian National Railway, but now we learn that the shameful privatization initiative will not have any foreign ownership limits imposed upon it.

This obviously opens the doors for American ownership and control over our national railway, which until now has been the main economic link between eastern and western Canada and which has been a critically important player in the transport of grain to export positions.

If Canadians lose control of this vital component of our transportation infrastructure, we will be forced by default to allow such things as a continental grain market, which in turn will lead to the demise of the Canadian Wheat Board, another Canadian institution worth fighting for.

It appears the Liberals want to get rid of CN so badly that they are willing to sacrifice important and economically beneficial pieces of national identity. I call on the government to reconsider any rail line privatization plans, especially ones that do not limit foreign ownership.

Mental Health Week

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Vancouver Centre, BC]

Mr. Speaker, mens sano in sano corporae. Everyone remembers the old saying, a healthy mind within a healthy body.

Today I would like to reverse the phrase. Without a healthy mind the body will not thrive. That is why I inform the House that this week is Mental Health Week.

During this week the Canadian Mental Health Association sponsors events across Canada to raise public awareness of mental health issues, to reduce the stigma of mental illness, and to encourage the acceptance of those who suffer from them. Health Canada supports the Canadian Mental Health Association through its grants to national voluntary health organizations.

The theme of this year's campaign is social support. There is no denying that positive interaction among family members, friends and co-workers will help to prevent both mental and physical illness.

This year the Canadian Mental Health Association is highlighting social support relating to stress, youth, physical health, the workplace and special needs in rural areas.

I hope members of the House will work with the Canadian Mental Health Association to make this week a success so we can all have healthy minds and healthy bodies.

Ve Day

[Jean Augustine, Liberal, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it was 50 years ago that people around the world began celebrating the end of the long years of World War II. For Canadian soldiers, sailors, air crew, nurses, the merchant marine and all who served in the frontlines in northwest Europe, Italy, Sicily and Hong Kong, VE day ensured liberty for future generations.

We are proud of these people and of all Canadians at home who contributed so much in support of the war effort. In Etobicoke-Lakeshore we take special pride in the efforts and sacrifices of the men and women of our community and over coming months will recognize the value of their contribution.

We are proud also to see our Prime Minister representing Canada overseas as many countries come together to commemorate VE day and to honour those who lost their lives in war. The message the Prime Minister brings in 1995 is that Canadians treasure peace as much as they did in 1945.

I thank the many Canadians who struggled to give us the ultimate gift of freedom.

Montreal Economy

[Bernard Patry, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday, the Quebec minister responsible for restructuring released the findings of a study on the impact that separation would have on companies with head offices in Quebec.

The main finding is that 5,000 jobs currently located in these head offices could be moved out of the province if Quebec became independent. Once again, Montreal would be the hardest hit, since most corporate head offices are located in that region.

As the study shows, Quebec's independence would be extremely costly to Montreal's economy. Quebecers are fed up with these studies, these tricks and these U-turns.

The Pequiste government must stop causing this job drain with its obsession to achieve independence, and instead help us revitalize the economy.

Quebec Sovereignty

[Laurent Lavigne, Bloc, Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday, before a partisan audience, the Prime Minister claimed to be convinced that the No camp would win the Quebec referendum, adding that he would continue to hold out his hand to the Quebec premier and ask him to join Team Canada.

However, since he took office, the Prime Minister keeps saying no to Quebec's legitimate demands. He closed the military college in Saint-Jean and he still refuses to approve a conversion program for the defence industry. His ministers also rejected MIL Davie's recovery plan, and his government refuses to withdraw from the manpower sector, in spite of the plea made by all those concerned in Quebec. And now the Prime Minister is tabling a bill designed to impose Canadian standards in areas under provincial jurisdiction. Quebec will not make the mistake of voting No at the referendum.

Taxpayers Protection Act

[Herb Grubel, Reform, Capilano—Howe Sound, BC]

Mr. Speaker, nations around the world recognize that to preserve civil liberties there must be limits on governmental powers, including those of spending and deficits.

A growing number of provincial governments have balanced budget laws. We Reformers now urge the application of similar restraints at the federal level. We are proposing the adoption of a

taxpayers protection act which compels future governments to balance the budget every year.

The act will have sharp teeth. Members of any government that runs a deficit would face pay cuts of up to 30 per cent and a 75 per cent majority of Parliament would be required to override the provisions.

Canadians have long supported limits that prevent a governmental attack on individual freedoms. It is now time to limit government attacks on individual wallets. This is why we are proposing a taxpayers protection act as an economic bill of rights for beleaguered Canadian taxpayers.

French As Language Of Work

[Robert Bertrand, Liberal, Pontiac—Gatineau—Labelle, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday, Le Conseil de la langue française made public a study on language of work indicators in Quebec.

I am pleased at the progress French has made as language of work in Quebec. The report reveals that, among other things, in 1991, over 67 per cent of senior jobs were occupied by francophones. The percentage of bilingual anglophones in Montreal has increased from 45 per cent in 1971 to 68 per cent in 1986.

All of this clearly indicates that the French fact is established in Quebec in all spheres of activity and that francophones, like anglophones, now have access to all the top jobs.

The study by Le Conseil de la langue française confirms what we have known for decades: it is possible to live and to succeed in a united Canada.

Kent State

[Mary Clancy, Liberal, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, 25 years ago today on a beautiful May morning a young woman put a daisy in the barrel of a national guardsman's gun. A few moments later, nine young men and women lay dead. With them died the dream of peace of the sixties generation.

Kent State's tragedy brought the Vietnam conflict home to the United States, but at the same time it pointed out a great difference between the cultures of Canada and the U.S. That same week thousands of young Canadians graduated from universities and the joy of our success was tempered by the tragedy in Ohio.

In our contemplation then as now, we were grateful for our kinder, gentler nation. We still are. For many of the sixties generation who now serve here, we pay tribute to those fallen youth by promising to stand forever on guard for tolerance.

Interprovincial Trade

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, with Bill C-88, the Agreement on Internal Trade Implementation Act, the government is acting as though it is eager to impose sanctions in the case of trade disputes between two provinces. The bill provides that the federal government may cut off transfer payments and suspend subsidies to any province that fails to comply with the internal trade agreement.

Would the Minister of Industry confirm that with the powers the federal government has assumed pursuant to Bill C-88, it will be able to suspend or reduce any contribution for social programs financing in the case of a province that does not comply with the agreement on internal trade?

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, I could go along with the hon. member's suggestion, but the answer is no.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, if we read subclause 9( d ), that is what it says. Since that is not the government's intention, I would like to ask the Minister of Industry whether he could make a clear commitment to amend the bill so as to exclude retaliatory measures in the form of suspending or reducing transfer payments for social programs financing in the case of a province that did not comply with the agreement.

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, I think the bill is quite clear. It concerns only the amendments required in federal jurisdictions to ensure that our statutes reflect our obligations under the agreement on internal trade.

If the Bloc wishes to propose amendments, it will be able to do so in the course of the parliamentary process.