Debates of May 28th, 2002

Government Contracts

[Gerry Ritz, Canadian Alliance, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Mr. Speaker, whether the proposal is accepted or not is irrelevant. It has no bearing on the facts. Did the minister specifically point out to the RCMP commissioner that Holland College, where the president is his brother, or did he actually say, would be a great place for this thing to go if they were going to do it? Yes or no.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

No, Mr. Speaker. As I have indicated quite clearly many times, when I receive a proposal it is handled in the appropriate manner. I did not indicate to the RCMP what they should or should not do. I did not tell the RCMP what to do or what not to do. I have never done that and I will never do that.

The Environment

[Charles Caccia, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Mr. Speaker, after lengthy negotiations, the Canada-Ontario Great Lakes agreement was signed in March 2002 and has been in effect since then, yet the details have not been made public.

Could the Minister of the Environment inform the House as to when the contents of the agreement will become public knowledge, considering the importance of protecting the world's largest freshwater ecosystem?

[David Anderson, Liberal, Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, I am happy to tell the hon. member that we are in discussions with the province of Ontario at the present time. My expectation is that we will be able to make the announcement that he asked for in the very near future, but I can assure him and the House that despite the fact that this has not yet been signed, ongoing work is continuing.

In fact, in the last year some $3 million was made available for projects under the general terms of the agreement, and we intend to make further financing announcements, regardless of the announcement with respect to the agreement, over the months to come.

Health Care

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North Centre, MB]

Mr. Speaker, the health minister says she wants to make evidence based decisions. She now has the evidence, the hard, cold facts, the conclusive results of the McMaster University study, which show that private hospital care increases death rates.

She also knows that under her watch private hospitals and clinics have opened up in Ontario, Alberta and B.C.

My question is for the minister. Now that she has the evidence, will she act to stop privatization?

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, as I have indicated before, if one presumes that provincial and territorial health ministers make decisions in relation to delivery methods for health care on the basis of evidence, the McMaster study is an important study. It is one study and I have no doubt that provincial and territorial colleagues will study it, just as I will.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North Centre, MB]

Mr. Speaker, the McMaster study, which shows that private hospital care increases death rates, is a call to action for the minister and the government.

Four months ago the health minister said private delivery was not a big deal. We now know it is a big deal. It is a matter of life and death.

Under the minister new privatization initiatives have occurred in Calgary, Vancouver, Abbotsford, Brampton and Ottawa. At this rate, deaths will occur in Canada as a result of the minister's inaction. Will she now stop privatization--

[The Speaker]

The hon. Minister of Health.

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, here is another example of the hon. member's tactics in relation to scaremongering.

As I have said throughout, my provincial and territorial colleagues and I will make decisions on the basis of the best evidence.

The hon. member is suggesting that this is a useful study in terms of helping us understand those delivery modes which make the most sense in various circumstances. Absolutely. I think the McMaster study will be very useful to all of us in making those decisions.

Government Contracts

[Bill Casey, Progressive Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Mr. Speaker, there is obviously a lot of concern surrounding the questions about the solicitor general's contact with the RCMP commissioner.

The right hon. member for Calgary Centre asked if this had been referred to the ethics commissioner and it seems to me that would be an appropriate way to deal with this. Has it been referred to the ethics commissioner or will it be?

[John Manley, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Infrastructure and Crown Corporations]

Mr. Speaker, the ethics counsellor is undoubtedly prepared to look at any question that is raised by a minister or by the Prime Minister with him, but I point out once again to the hon. member that there is no allegation here, even at the most extreme, that any private or personal interest was being pursued in this case. Rather, what was being considered was a proposal from public institutions, namely two colleges and a university. It is a different matter altogether.

[Bill Casey, Progressive Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Mr. Speaker, the ethics counsellor's report on the Gagliano affair is twelve pages long, has four subtitles and twelve sub-subtitles. It obviously took a lot of work and time to prepare. It is hard to believe that the ethics counsellor, over the weekend, on Saturday afternoon, could prepare two of these. Would the government table these two completed reports on the minister of public works and the minister of defence today?

[John Manley, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Infrastructure and Crown Corporations]

Mr. Speaker, insofar as the ethics counsellor advises the Prime Minister on the conduct of ministers, that is a matter between him and the Prime Minister. The Prime Minister takes responsibility for ministerial conduct and that is his job.

Government Appointments

[Betty Hinton, Canadian Alliance, Kamloops, Thompson And Highland Valleys, BC]

Mr. Speaker, we now learn that Portugal, like Denmark, might be receiving a disgraced Canadian minister as our ambassador. Rumours are afoot that the former Minister of National Defence may be appointed ambassador to Portugal.

Will the government assure Canadians that another disgraced minister will not be rewarded with an ambassador's position?

[John Manley, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Infrastructure and Crown Corporations]

Mr. Speaker, I guess the economy is going well, I guess the Alliance Party is very satisfied with the state of Canadian health care and I am sure that the Alliance has no concerns in areas of justice or in other matters of the environment, because that has to be one of the more pathetic questions we have been exposed to in the House in a long time.

[Betty Hinton, Canadian Alliance, Kamloops, Thompson And Highland Valleys, BC]

Mr. Speaker, we are concerned about all of those things on this side of the House, but we are also concerned about the reputation of Canada worldwide and as a trade partner.

The Danish people must be wondering why Canada is punishing them by shipping them one of the Prime Minister's ethically damaged ministers.

One minister did something wrong and was punished. Another did something equally wrong, possibly worse, and he is being rewarded with an ambassadorship.

Do you have any standards on that side of the House, and if you do, what are they?

[John Manley, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Infrastructure and Crown Corporations]

I am sure, Mr. Speaker, that you do have standards and I would speak for them any time.

That really reflects the mentality of the members over there, that this is all about punishment. In fact what we are endeavouring to do and what the Prime Minister endeavoured to do in his speech last week was to deal with the maintenance of public confidence with an eight point plan to deal with issues, some of which have been raised quite legitimately by the auditor general. We have been very transparent and open about those. We have undertaken to make the changes that are necessary. We are looking toward the future, while they are looking to punish for the past.

Government Contracts

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Beauport—Montmorency—Côte-De- Beaupré—Île-D'Orléans, QC]

Mr. Speaker, we have just heard from the lips of the Deputy Prime Minister that the minister of heritage was apparently the one who selected Groupe Everest to organize the cross-Canada consultation on amateur sport.

We would like to know the criteria the heritage minister used to select, totally at random, the company belonging to the great buddy of the minister of immigration?

[John Manley, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Infrastructure and Crown Corporations]

Mr. Speaker, I never said it was the minister, I said it was the Department of Canadian Heritage. According to treasury board regulations, the company was chosen by Public Works Canada.

I would however like to quote the words of the member for Châteauguay who said “I congratulate the government for the consultations it has carried out. I believe they were necessary for the sporting community, be it athletes, coaches, or even other levels of government. There were consultations, and I took part in some. I congratulate the government on that”.

This, then is the work which—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Beauport—Montmorency—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île-d'Orléans.

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Beauport—Montmorency—Côte-De- Beaupré—Île-D'Orléans, QC]

Mr. Speaker, is she the one who made the choice? If not, if it is not the secretary of state, who says he is not empowered to award contracts, and if it is not the minister of heritage, then was it Alfonso Gagliano who awarded the contract?

[John Manley, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Infrastructure and Crown Corporations]

Mr. Speaker, the same question may be asked a hundred times, but the answer is always the same.

Not only did the contract respect TB regulations, but I have also just quoted the words of his colleague who has indicated that the work done under this contract was carried out very well.

Government Appointments

[Stockwell Day, Canadian Alliance, Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC]

Mr. Speaker, Alfonso Gagliano's conduct as public works minister is now the subject of at least one police investigation and involving Groupaction. Surely given the Prime Minister's apparent concern about ethics in public life, given that, it is wrong for him to allow Mr. Gagliano to continue as our ambassador.

Will the Prime Minister tell us, is he at least considering rescinding the appointment of Alfonso Gagliano as ambassador?

[John Manley, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Infrastructure and Crown Corporations]

Mr. Speaker, first, the member misstates the facts. The former minister is not under any police investigation. Second, once again in a casual smearing of a distinguished public career reputation, I think it is unsuitable.

The information of which Mr. Gagliano is aware is perfectly accessible through all of this process and he too is accessible to those who are doing the investigation.

[Stockwell Day, Canadian Alliance, Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister has put in place a flexible ethics guideline. The minister of defence did not adhere to it and was removed from his position. The minister of public works did not adhere to it, and was demoted. Yet Alfonso Gagliano did not adhere to it and was given an ambassadorship by the Prime Minister. This involves not only international affairs but also funny business.

Could the Deputy Prime Minister perhaps explain this to me?