House of Commons Hansard #84 of the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was exports.

Topics

EthicsOral Questions

3 p.m.

Conservative

Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB

Mr. Speaker, the chair of the cabinet committee on litigation management is headlining an exclusive event on the taxpayers' dime for a law firm whose clients are people for whom the minister has an ethics screen, and it is being co-hosted by a lobbyist firm whose senior VP is the national co-chair of the Liberal Party of Canada.

In the minister's mandate letter, it says that upholding ethical standards is an obligation that is not fully discharged by simply acting within the law. Is the minister upholding the standard?

EthicsOral Questions

3 p.m.

Beauséjour New Brunswick

Liberal

Dominic LeBlanc LiberalMinister of Fisheries

Mr. Speaker, yes, I am.

HealthOral Questions

3 p.m.

Bloc

Luc Thériault Bloc Montcalm, QC

Mr. Speaker, all members of the Quebec National Assembly, sovereignists and federalists alike, are unanimous. The message is clear: health falls under the exclusive jurisdiction of Quebec, and Ottawa is certainly not going to be the one to decide how Quebec manages its money.

Rather than imposing Conservative-style unilateral cuts, with NDP-style conditions, will the minister maintain the 6% transfer increase without conditions, as the Quebec National Assembly is unanimously calling for?

HealthOral Questions

3 p.m.

Markham—Stouffville Ontario

Liberal

Jane Philpott LiberalMinister of Health

Mr. Speaker, we know that the provinces and territories are on the front lines. They provide excellent care and know what improvements need to be made. It is really important that we work together. The Canada health transfer is going to increase by more than $1 billion next year, bringing—

HealthOral Questions

3 p.m.

Liberal

The Speaker Liberal Geoff Regan

Order. Apparently there is a problem with the interpretation.

It is working now, so I would ask the hon. minister to start again.

HealthOral Questions

3 p.m.

Liberal

Jane Philpott Liberal Markham—Stouffville, ON

Mr. Speaker, it is important for everyone to hear this: the Canada health transfer is going to increase by more than $1 billion next year, bringing it past the $37 billion mark. We are committed to being a good partner to the provinces and territories and working with them.

HealthOral Questions

3 p.m.

Bloc

Monique Pauzé Bloc Repentigny, QC

Mr. Speaker, Quebec's nurses are worried. Yesterday, their president said that decreasing the transfers would truly put Quebec's health care system in jeopardy and would decrease Quebec's ability to provide care to those who need it, the sick. The government is attacking the sick in Quebec.

I do not want the figures. I want to know whether the Minister of Health is going to hold the transfers at 6% without condition, as the nurses of Quebec are calling for. I just want a yes or no.

HealthOral Questions

3 p.m.

Markham—Stouffville Ontario

Liberal

Jane Philpott LiberalMinister of Health

Mr. Speaker, I would like to point out that nurses across Canada have supported the approach of our government toward our discussions on the health accord. In fact, they have said that we must drive innovation, we must work together, and we must make sure that new money puts health care on the road to long-term sustainability. The Canadian Nurses Association has supported this. Today, we heard from the Canadian Medical Association, who also agrees that the federal government needs to be a good partner with the provinces and territories and needs to collaborate on health care for all Canadians.

Business of the HouseOral Questions

September 29th, 2016 / 3:05 p.m.

Conservative

Candice Bergen Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB

Mr. Speaker, I do not want to pre-empt what the government will be enlightening us on, but I understand that we will possibly be debating the Paris accord next week, which we welcome. We hope that the government will pay that same important attention if the Liberals decide to send Canadian men and women into harm's way and will take its time on those important decisions.

With that in mind, I want to ask the hon. House leader what the government is proposing for the rest of this week and for next week.

Business of the HouseOral Questions

3:05 p.m.

Waterloo Ontario

Liberal

Bardish Chagger LiberalLeader of the Government in the House of Commons and Minister of Small Business and Tourism

Mr. Speaker, this afternoon we will continue to debate the NDP opposition motion. Tomorrow we will resume debate on Bill C-22, on the national security committee of parliamentarians.

I understand that tomorrow will be the final day of debate at second reading. I thank the opposition for their co-operation on this matter.

Next week we will debate a motion for the ratification of the Paris Agreement. As my colleague mentioned, I anticipate a very robust debate, as there is much interest by hon. members on all sides. I am working with the other House leaders to complete the debate with a vote on Wednesday.

Pursuant to Standing Order 51, the House will have a debate regarding the Standing Orders and procedures next Thursday.

The House resumed consideration of the motion.

Opposition Motion--Creation of a Standing Committee on Arms Exports ReviewBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:05 p.m.

NDP

Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise again to talk about our NDP motion, which I am quite proud of in the sense that it would bring accountability on a very important issue.

One thing I have learned, representing Windsor West, is that social justice is part of our DNA. Where we live, we were originally a francophone settlement, It was aboriginal prior to that, then francophone, then British. We have also lived through a number of things that have marked us, such as the Underground Railroad, where people came to freedom. People who were slaves in the United States came to our shores in Windsor West to find freedom and justice.

I believe this issue of selling military arms across the globe and ramping up those sales is something we should have at least a lens of Parliament on. That is all this motion is about. It would not make anything different, aside from the fact that we would get greater public accountability. For heaven's sake, would it not make sense for the world right now to examine arms sales as we are sending them out into the world? Would it not make sense, given the fact that we are faced with constant terrorism, and manufactured weapons, vehicles, and munitions are ending up in the hands of others? It is a simple thing that can be done and that makes sense for a lot of reasons.

We heard that Canada is back. That is exactly what the Prime Minister said. The Prime Minister said that Canada should “stop arms sales to regimes that flout democracy such as Saudi Arabia”. He said that in The London Free Press.

Not only do we get a continuation of the Conservative policy of basically duck and weave on accountability on this but we get an enhanced flavour from the Prime Minister trying to say that Canada is back. That means something different, which is that they are going to continue the policy. Canada is back doing the same things it has done before, and that is unfortunate.

All we are calling for is a parliamentary committee to examine this. That is important, because then the workers, business people, traders, and domestic and international procurement people would come to committee. When they come to a committee, their testimony has to be accurate. It cannot be a lie or they would be perjuring themselves and there would be significant consequences.

One of the things I argued about when I was on city council back in the day was why we continued to do business with people who had bad records or criminal records. I am not saying that this is the case in this situation, but what we would do is find out about the records. If we found out that arms sales from Canada were directly or indirectly going to another destination, we would have some accountability and maybe some best practices and could lead in the world.

Right now we are ramping up arms sales in the Middle East. Given the state of the Middle East, would it not make sense to at least take a pause? Given the horrific scenes we see day in and day out, and given that we have had decades of conflict affecting civilians and children in a cycle of violence and that we have to deal with the consequences back here when they come for freedom, safety, and democracy, would it not make sense that Parliament do its job? Parliament should do its job, and anyone saying anything different is abdicating responsibility and basically turning a blind eye. That is often a worse situation than just turning their backs, because they are leaving people in and are growing the problem. It is passive aggressive behaviour.

It is time we fix this. This motion would do just that. It would bring accountability for Canadians on the weaponization of the world.

Opposition Motion--Creation of a Standing Committee on Arms Exports ReviewBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:10 p.m.

Winnipeg North Manitoba

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Mr. Speaker, during the last federal election, the leader of the New Democratic Party indicated that a multibillion dollar contract that went over a number of years was something the New Democratic Party would support. Can the member indicate to the House whether part of that commitment included having a special committee, as the member is talking about? If the answer is no, could the member please indicate why the NDP members refuse to have any confidence in the standing committees we currently have, one of which, the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and Economic Development, has already committed to doing a report on the issue we have been debating today?

Opposition Motion--Creation of a Standing Committee on Arms Exports ReviewBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:15 p.m.

NDP

Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON

Mr. Speaker, we cannot improve Parliament and bring up new situations by going back.

Let us apply that logic. I would say to the parliamentary secretary, because he represents the Prime Minister on multiple occasions, that his Prime Minister said that Canada must “stop arms sales to regimes that flout democracy such as Saudi Arabia”.

When times change, we need to change.

With the bombing and the destruction, and for the women and children who are involved, it has gotten even worse. I am not burying my head in the sand. It is time the member did the same.

Opposition Motion--Creation of a Standing Committee on Arms Exports ReviewBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:15 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

Mr. Speaker, I thought we might hear a bit about the relationship between this motion and sports betting. I will ask my question in a bit of a different direction.

We agree with the member on the importance of having a parliamentary committee study this issue. At committee we supported the creation of a subcommittee on this.

I am curious about the member's thoughts on why this motion does not direct the foreign affairs committee to study this or create its own subcommittee. Surely there has to be a limit on the number of standing committees we have in this House. At the same time, this is something that could and should be studied within the context of the foreign affairs committee.

Opposition Motion--Creation of a Standing Committee on Arms Exports ReviewBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:15 p.m.

NDP

Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON

Mr. Speaker, it is unfortunate that the member tried to make light of my bill on sports betting. I will leave it at that.

Women and children are affected by this legislation. These little jokes about the situation are not helpful to the debate. They certainly apply directly to the manner in this House.

Opposition Motion--Creation of a Standing Committee on Arms Exports ReviewBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:15 p.m.

NDP

Cheryl Hardcastle NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON

Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask my hon. colleague if he could expand a little on how this issue of human rights deserves to have its own committee so that it can adequately address the weaponization he referred to in his speech.

Opposition Motion--Creation of a Standing Committee on Arms Exports ReviewBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:15 p.m.

NDP

Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON

Mr. Speaker, what it can do is add value for other types of human rights issues. They are connected in different ways. Some are intended, such as when arms are sold to organizations and countries that have nefarious practices. Some inadvertently come into effect through regime change and other types of activities that lead to the weapons finding a second or third home.

This committee could add some substantial value. The United Kingdom, another Commonwealth partner, is looking at this. We could actually set best practices on selling manufactured weapons from Canada.

Opposition Motion--Creation of a Standing Committee on Arms Exports ReviewBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:15 p.m.

Scarborough—Guildwood Ontario

Liberal

John McKay LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Defence

Mr. Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to participate in this debate. I will be splitting my time with the member for Laurentides—Labelle.

I am pleased to rise and participate. I want to thank the member for Laurier—Sainte-Marie for her motion. In another life, she and I were co-conspirators on a number of issues, most particularly with respect to corporate social responsibility. However, I regret that I will not be able to support the motion for a very simple reason. It appears that we are going to amend the law first and then find out about the evidence second. We should at least go through the business of finding out the evidence first, then if the law needs to be amended, we should amend it after we have heard the evidence.

It does give me an opportunity to talk about the Canadian defence industry. The Government of Canada is committed to working with the industry to strengthen it, both for economic and military purposes. A stronger defence industry builds a stronger economy. A stronger defence industry builds a stronger military, and a stronger military builds a stronger Canada.

Our government has demonstrated its commitment to providing the Canadian Armed Forces with the equipment they need to take on the important tasks we assign to them. This is a particular aspect of the minister's mandate letter, which states that the minister needs to “Ensure that the Canadian Armed Forces have the equipment they need”.

If there is one thing we can all agree on today it is the fact that we ask a lot of our service men and women. We expect them to defend Canada and North America and to take on international peace and stability tasks abroad, often with partners and allies within the context of international coalitions, such as the one operating in Iraq today. These are highly dangerous missions. In fact, at this very moment, there are literally thousands of Canadian Armed Forces members deployed abroad.

In order to do this they must be well equipped. If they are going to be well equipped, it would be preferable that it be with Canadian equipment. That is why military procurement in Canada aims to achieve three broad objectives: timely delivery, fair and transparent procurement processes, and economic benefits to Canada.

In order to achieve those three goals, we have to have a defence industry if there are to be economic benefits. In the business of procurement, one of the things is obviously the economic benefits. If we had no defence industry, we would be very hard pressed to get economic benefits out of any procurement.

The Department of National Defence defines the requirements. Public Services and Procurement Canada sets the procurement strategy; and Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada administers the industrial and technological benefits policy. Each year, defence procurement represents a significant area of federal expenditure. For example, Mr. Speaker, in your riding of Halifax West, there were direct expenditures of $116 million in your riding alone. If one just applies a multiplier of one, that means something north of a quarter of a billion dollars gets spent by the defence department each and every year in your riding. Almost 2,000 employees are postal coded in your riding alone, Mr. Speaker. I knew that would get your attention.

Defence procurement also represents a significant portion of public services. In this particular instance, at $6.2 billion, it constitutes 42% of the government's procurement on average over the last 10 years. Contracting by the Department of National Defence under authorities delegated by Public Services and Procurement Canada to DND accounted for an additional $700 million.

The vast majority of DND projects are completed successfully without any issues. Still, over the last year, we have looked at defence procurement to identify where improvements could be made. We are now taking actions to complete those changes.

We are improving our procurement capability by hiring and enhancing our professional capabilities. We are drawing lesson from our allies, particularly Australia and the United States where the governments have been working closely with industry to make in-service support more efficient, and we are streamlining internal approval processes to cut approval times in half.

I am confident that these measures will help improve our procurement and make it easier for our men and women in uniform to get the equipment they need in a timely manner. All of this is to say that the success of Canada's defence industry is critical to the success of our military. Their products and innovation and creativity lead ultimately to highly effective tools and greater protection of Canadians in uniform. This is a critical relationship and one that we want to continue to build on.

However, beyond the benefits to our military, there is another important reason to keep our defence industry strong, that being the Canadians they employ. For instance, the Canadian Association of Defence and Security Industries says that the sector employs 63,000 Canadians and generates $10 billion in annual revenue, roughly 60% coming from exports. For instance, the direct spending in the riding of London North Centre, which abuts London—Fanshawe, is $375 million. I know that might cause some jealousy, but nevertheless, even again using a multiplier of just one, that is three quarters of a billion dollars being spent by defence in one riding and one riding alone.

Defence industry jobs are skilled jobs and pay quite a bit more on average than most industrial jobs do, and the products they produce are in high demand. As technology advances, as the battlefield becomes more complex and more dependent on information technology, the equipment needed by our men and women in uniform grows ever more sophisticated. The research and development these companies undertake will drive even more innovation and more Canadian expertise.

This is how Christyn Cianfarani, President of the Canadian Association of Defence and Security Industries, put it in an opinion piece just this week:

...defence procurement and defence R&D can be powerful instruments in the innovation policy arsenal, and can help foster new, as well as strengthen existing clusters. This can lead to commercial applications that have enormous long-term benefits for a country’s productivity and competitiveness.

Mr. Speaker, I know you have copious free time for reading and may I suggest that you read the book, Start-up Nation, which shows how the Government of Israel uses its defence capabilities to innovate. Those innovations in turn lead to significant commercial applications, which lead to wealth generation in that nation.

Canadian defence companies are technology firms. They are innovators in areas such as radar satellites, including RADARSAT-2 and the forthcoming RADARSAT Constellation mission. Canadian companies are truly world class and their work is highly dependent on our own military. It is harder and more complex for Canadian firms to market their products abroad.

It just does not make sense. This is not a motion that we can support.

The government is committed to working with the defence industry. The government is committed to supporting this important sector, as it seeks markets to support high-paying, high-skilled jobs.

At the present time, we are leading a multinational NATO task force in Latvia; potentially contributing to peace support operations in Africa; fighting the fight in Iraq against Daesh; and doing daily operations both here and in North America. We support the great work they do. A stronger industry builds a stronger military, and a stronger economy builds a stronger Canada. I think that is something we can all agree on.

Opposition Motion--Creation of a Standing Committee on Arms Exports ReviewBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:25 p.m.

NDP

Brigitte Sansoucy NDP Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC

Mr. Speaker, what I find unfortunate today is that all too often the debate is drifting from the motion that we are debating.

We are not here to question the fact that military procurement for the Canadian army or its allies is done by Canadian companies. We are not here to lament the fact that exports of Canadian arms have almost doubled in the past 10 years.

No, what is worrisome is that Canada used to export arms mainly to NATO countries. However, during the past 10 years, under the Conservatives, Canada's arms exports have changed and now we export to many countries with a troubling human rights record.

In fact, today, Canada is the second-largest arms dealer in the Middle East. If existing controls were actually functional, we would not be debating this motion. Clearly, they are not.

Does the member not agree that part of our work as MPs is to look into the government's activities, which include Canadian arms sales? Does the member not support greater transparency on this matter?

Opposition Motion--Creation of a Standing Committee on Arms Exports ReviewBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:30 p.m.

Liberal

John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON

Mr. Speaker, I would agree with the hon. member that the role of MPs is in fact to scrutinize government activities and spending. However, before I would amend any legislation to that effect and create another committee, I would at least like to establish the evidence that would support such an amendment to the legislation.

As to the original preamble in her question, I would point out to the hon. member that we trade with five of the largest countries in defence procurement: the United Kingdom, Germany, Australia, Hong Kong, and the U.S. I am sure that the hon. member and I would agree that the only country that is a bit problematic in that whole list is Saudi Arabia.

Opposition Motion--Creation of a Standing Committee on Arms Exports ReviewBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:30 p.m.

Liberal

Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON

Mr. Speaker, this motion is the latest in a series of repeated attempts by the NDP to actively undermine Canada's defence industry. The 70,000 well-paying manufacturing jobs in Canada would include over 1,000 in my home riding of Guelph.

In the coming months, we will be discussing legislation around the Arms Trade Treaty, as we promised during the election campaign, and I wonder whether the parliamentary secretary could expand on the redundancy of this motion.

Opposition Motion--Creation of a Standing Committee on Arms Exports ReviewBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:30 p.m.

Liberal

John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member is absolutely correct that we have a bit of a cart-before-the-horse problem here. We have not gone through the necessary hard work, the slogging process, of determining what would be appropriate amendments to the panoply of legislation that applies to exports of various forms of armaments. Until we go through that hard, conflicting, and sometimes morally ambiguous work, then I would suggest that the hon. member is absolutely correct that this is, if not a premature motion, certainly an unnecessary one.

Opposition Motion--Creation of a Standing Committee on Arms Exports ReviewBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

Mr. Speaker, I certainly agree with some of the things my colleague said. Conservatives are not going to be supporting a call for a separate standing committee on this issue. However, the Liberals on the foreign affairs committee voted against having a subcommittee to study the arms control issue, and contrary to what we have heard from some Liberal members, there is not a study currently scheduled on this issue at the foreign affairs committee.

We are not going to assume there is a big problem here, but would it not make sense, given some of the issues that have been raised and certainly the importance of this area, for there to be a study at the existing committee or at some subcommittee thereof to develop some clarity around what is happening in this situation, and especially whether some of the rules that have been in place for a while are being effectively enforced in these cases?

Opposition Motion--Creation of a Standing Committee on Arms Exports ReviewBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:30 p.m.

Liberal

John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON

Mr. Speaker, I am in no position to comment on how a committee conducts its own affairs. Not being there, it would not be appropriate for me to comment as to whether it is prepared to do a study or not.

I do take note of the fact that the government has agreed to accede to the Arms Trade Treaty. Because it is a treaty and because the government must necessarily put it on the floor of the House in order to have it ratified, that will probably be the first window and probably a very large window of opportunity to debate the very issues that are within the subject matter today.