Evidence of meeting #7 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was letter.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Karlheinz Schreiber  As an Individual

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo

Good morning. I call to order the seventh meeting of the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics, in relation to our study of the Mulroney Airbus settlement.

I also ask for silence in this room throughout the meeting, as usual.

Appearing before us is Mr. Karlheinz Schreiber, who is accompanied by his legal counsel, Mr. Richard Auger, who may advise his client but not address the committee.

Good morning, Mr. Schreiber.

Good morning, Mr. Auger.

Just a brief reminder about our translators. If the members or the witnesses have documents from which they're going to read, and if there are copies of that available, it would be helpful to them if it could be provided to the clerk, who will give it to the translators, so that we can have a clear translation of the documents.

Mr. Schreiber, the members received copies of the documents you tabled with us late yesterday afternoon. Those documents have also been provided to the press gallery and to Mr. Mulroney. As such, we will have to be a little patient with those members who are not conversant with all of the documents at this time; there was a substantial amount.

Finally, let me just remind you again that refusing to answer a question is not an option. I will, however, consider any arguments or justification you may have as to why an answer cannot be fully given at this time. I also remind you that you are covered by parliamentary privilege, which means that no testimony given by you before this committee can be used against you in any other proceeding. Perjury, however, is another matter.

I would now like to move to the first round of questioning. I give the floor to Mr. Thibault.

Oh, I apologize, Mr. Schreiber. I did offer that if you wanted to make a statement to the committee at any time, we would welcome it. So I ask you now—

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON

On a point of privilege, we went through this the last time, Mr. Chairman, where you gave a very lengthy statement and then you invited Mr. Schreiber to give a very lengthy statement.

I don't believe the witnesses in this committee have the right, each time, to give opening statements. He's had an opportunity to give his opening statement.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo

Mr. Tilson, that is not a matter of privilege.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON

Well, you haven't let me finish, Mr. Chairman. I can only talk so fast. I know you like to talk fast, but I don't talk as fast as you do.

I'm simply telling you that members of this committee have a number of questions they want to put to this witness, and we only have a certain period of time to do that. I don't believe you have the right to invite witnesses each day—if they're here day after day—to give opening statements. You don't have the right to do that; the committee has a right to do that. We have rules in this committee, sir, and you can't set your own rules.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo

Thank you, Mr. Tilson.

Yesterday at the committee—

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Charles Hubbard Liberal Miramichi, NB

May I move a motion that Mr. Schreiber be given five minutes for an opening statement?

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo

We are on a point of privilege right now. I can't entertain your motion, but I do hear you.

Are you finished, Mr. Tilson, with your point?

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON

Yes, sir.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo

Okay.

At our last meeting, I did make the statement inviting Mr. Schreiber, either now or at any future time, to make a statement to the committee.

Mr. Schreiber, you understand that committee members are anxious to move on to questions. But I offered that to you. It was sincere and important that the offer be made to you to clear up any matters, hopefully. How much time would you require to make an opening statement, sir?

11:10 a.m.

Karlheinz Schreiber As an Individual

Probably two minutes.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo

Two minutes?

Mr. Tilson, would that be all right, approximately two minutes?

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON

I don't think witnesses should.... He's had his time for an opening statement.

You keep going on, sir. You can't do that. You make these statements and then you just ignore what we say and proceed. It's most inappropriate.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo

Thank you, Mr. Tilson.

I've made a decision, and I've offered it to Mr. Schreiber. I'm going to keep my word.

Mr. Schreiber, you have two minutes to make an opening statement.

11:10 a.m.

As an Individual

Karlheinz Schreiber

First of all, I want to say good morning to you, Mr. Chairman and all the members.

Last time, until now, you received the road map in the case, because I think only when you understand the history can you manage the present and the future. This is what I learned.

Since 1997, through the Attorney General of Canada and the RCMP, I was blocked from the Department of Justice to bring forward my case until today. I knew that Canadians and I can find the truth only in a courtroom or in a public inquiry, when people have to testify under oath, knowing there are people around who know when one is committing perjury. Although I asked for years for a public inquiry, thank the Lord that this committee started the process after all these years.

I did not ask for a public inquiry concerning the payment of $300,000. I would be out of my mind to ask for something I know better than anybody else.

The last letter I sent to Prime Minister Harper tells you what I want for all Canadians: a full public inquiry into the biggest political justice scandal in the history of Canada, with international implications, the cover-up action from the present government, the lies of the Minister of Justice, the kidnapping allowed on me, etc. Who is so scared that the justice department and the RCMP get involved in all kinds of illegal actions against me?

Disappointment in this case is not the world you live in. How will you understand in a short time what happens without my help in four hours? You should be very satisfied, at least those of you who want the inquiry. Media people understand the case because they have been in it for 13 years. There are others who think they know the case and they don't.

Read. This is what I heard. Ask, listen, you learn. Always ask why. Nothing has changed. It is a fight for power and big money. You can listen to one who knows or others who know nothing.

That's it. Thank you.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo

Thank you kindly, Mr. Schreiber.

I'm now going to give the floor to the Honourable Robert Thibault.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Robert Thibault Liberal West Nova, NS

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Before starting the questioning, I would like to make a motion.

In light of the fact that we have a lot of information to get from this and other witnesses and that seven-minute and five-minute rounds are insufficient to be able to get into any detail whatsoever, I would move that all rounds of questioning be 10 minutes per questioner.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo

That motion is in order. Is there any debate?

Mr. Tilson.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON

Mr. Chairman, I don't have any problem with that. Quite frankly, 10 minutes aren't enough. Probably 20 minutes aren't enough.

This whole process is inadequate to properly find what's going on in this whole matter. You could ask three questions, which could lead to three more questions. I have no problem supporting your motion, but the problem with it is this is almost turning into some sort of inquiry itself, for which 10 minutes aren't enough. We're starting to do the work of the public inquiry, which hasn't even begun yet.

I have no problem agreeing with what you're saying, but I do that with the qualification that 10 minutes aren't enough.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo

Thank you.

Is there further debate?

I will then put the question on increasing the time slots for all speakers to 10 minutes.

(Motion agreed to)

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo

Mr. Thibault, s'il vous plaît, for 10 minutes.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Robert Thibault Liberal West Nova, NS

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Welcome again, Mr. Schreiber, counsel.

Mr. Schreiber, today I'd like to explore the source of the $300,000 that you paid out to Mr. Mulroney. I'd also like to have your thoughts on a public inquiry--why you considered it necessary and why you would see that some people would not think it a good idea to have that.

In order to get to that question, though, I have a few questions to ask, and I'd ask you to be as brief as possible. A “yes” or “no” may suffice in many of these.

Mr. Schreiber, in your testimony, you stated that the $300,000 paid to Mr. Mulroney came from the Britan account. Can you confirm that all the money in the Britan account came from the Frankfurt account? Please answer yes or no.

11:15 a.m.

As an Individual

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Robert Thibault Liberal West Nova, NS

Can you confirm that the Frankfurt account held funds that originated from International Leasing for which you were the trustee?

11:15 a.m.

As an Individual

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Robert Thibault Liberal West Nova, NS

Can you confirm that the funds that ultimately ended up in the Frankfurt account came from success fees from projects involving MBB, Airbus, and Thyssen?