Public Safety Committee on Nov. 3rd, 2010

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Good afternoon, everyone. This is meeting number 38 of the Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security, on Wednesday, November 3, 2010.

Today we are continuing the study of issues surrounding the security at the G-8 and G-20 summits. As our witnesses in the first hour, we have, from the Ontario Provincial Police, Larry Beechey, deputy commissioner, traffic safety and operational support; from the Toronto Police Service, Chief William Blair; and the commanding officer of the G-20 investigative team, Detective Sergeant Gary Giroux. As well, we have with us Kevin Gagnon, who is appearing as an individual.

Our committee thanks each of you for being with us today and for taking the time to appear before our committee. I understand that a number of you have brief opening statements to make before we get into the questions from our committee.

We welcome you here today. On our order paper, we have a list of the order in which we want to go.

Mr. Beechey, would you mind beginning? Thank you.

[Deputy Commissioner Larry Beechey, Deputy Commissioner, Traffic Safety and Operational Support, Ontario Provincial Police]

I'd like to thank you for the invitation to speak to the committee today in relation to the OPP's role in supporting security for the 2010 summits.

I was the executive lead for the G-8 and G-20 summits for the OPP and part of the executive steering committee for the G-8 and G-20 during the operation.

The security operation put in place for the G-8 summit was the largest ever undertaken in the history of the OPP. It is our opinion that through collaboration and extensive planning with our security partners, a successful security operation was delivered as effectively and efficiently as possible.

Following the announcement in June 2008 that the G-8 summit would be held in Huntsville, the OPP began preliminary security planning. In January 2009, the OPP dedicated five members to the RCMP-led integrated security unit, located in Barrie. By the time the summit happened, that number had grown to 109 members.

These members were deployed in a number of functions, such as: operational command, which included project management and communications; planning functions, such as community relations, crime, prisoner processing, marine, site operations, and traffic management; logistics, which oversaw human resource mobilization, assets, telecom, information technology, and vehicles; finance; and as well, our joint intelligence group.

Many working relations in the ISU had already been forged during previous major events. The highly collaborative atmosphere within the ISU allowed many issues to be addressed during the day-to-day discussions. A clearly defined organizational structure based on the incident management system also facilitated collaboration across disciplines and agencies.

During the planning stage, a formal interoperability group was established, involving senior agency leads from all ISU security partners. The establishment of joint operational planning groups further drove the integration.

During the G-8 summit security operation, the OPP deployed a total of 2,488 members in the following functions: site operations, which included interdiction zones in the Town of Huntsville, proactive and reactive patrols, surveillance zones, and infrastructure protection; traffic operations in and around the summit and the major highways; crime management, including proactive and reactive teams, forensic identification, and prisoner processing; the community relations group, including community outreach; specialized field resources in the matter of public order units, tactical response units, aviation services, canine and underwater search and recovery teams, crisis negotiation, tactical emergency medics, obstruction removal, and CBRNe; marine operations; logistical operations to support our members in the field; public affairs and communications; intelligence operations; and our command and control.

The OPP was part of the unified command centre in Barrie, which provided strategic level coordination between the G-8 and G-20 theatres of operation. At the operational level, the Muskoka area command centre was the primary operational command centre for the OPP's G-8 operations. The M-ACC, as it was called, was also a unified command structure involving the three key agencies in G-8 security: the RCMP, OPP, and Canadian Forces. The M-ACC included command/coordination leads for each of the major functional units reporting to the OPP operations commander.

The OPP commenced their security operations on the morning of June 23, going through the evening of June 26. During this time, the majority of our security forces were deployed 24/7.

There was minimal protest activity in relation to the G-8 and there were no G-8-related arrests. There were some challenges we had to deal with relating to getting our internationally protected people from Muskoka to Toronto with the air bridge, as we had to make some amendments to our security operation.

I can tell you on behalf of the OPP that if anything had happened to disrupt the summit meetings in Huntsville, we were fully prepared to handle it.

We were also prepared to assist, and did so, during the G-20 summit. With the exception of the 400 series highways, the OPP generally had a preplanned supportive role in G-20 security operations, involving functions such as the motorcades, route security, marine operations, and command and control.

In closing, I'd like to comment that, as a provincial police service, the OPP has a long history of supporting as well as relying on other police services throughout the province to ensure public safety. We believe that the operations delivered in support of the 2010 summits stand as a solid example of strong integration and collective efforts in securing these meetings.

I'd like to thank you once again for being able to come here to speak to you today about our role.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you very much, Mr. Beechey.

We'll move to the next person on the order paper, Mr. Kevin Gagnon, who is appearing as an individual.

Welcome.

[Kevin Gagnon, As an Individual]

Thank you for having me here today. My name is Kevin Gagnon. I am a biochemistry student at the Université du Québec à Montréal. I went to the G20 meeting to protest peacefully for the environment because the future of our planet is something that concerns us all.

I never would have believed that I would be arrested that weekend. I would have believed even less that I would end up being charged with conspiracy. Being before you today to tell this story seems unreal to me. I still cannot believe that it happened.

I was arrested around 9:00 when I was asleep in a gymnasium with about a hundred other people. When I woke up, police officers were jumping over my mattress. They pointed their guns at me and yelled at me in English not to move. I was not yet fully awake and I was completely traumatized. The arrest took about four or five hours. No one read me my rights during that time. It took about three hours before I was able to go to the toilet. When you get woken up that way, you need to go to the toilet, you really do.

I was then driven in a paddy wagon to the temporary detention centre. The trip took an hour and a half. Other people told me that, for them, the trip was three hours. The police holding them put the heat right up instead of the air conditioning, for fun.

I noticed several things when I got there. First, in the cages, there was a toilet open and in plain view to anyone passing by. There was no toilet paper. So it was not uncommon for people the detainees to have to wipe themselves with sandwich wrappings that were lying on the floor. I saw that a number of times. I did not do it myself.

In the 18 hours following my arrest, I was given only a sandwich and a glass of water. I was in handcuffs for about 15 hours. The first time my rights were read to me was 16 hours after my arrest. After that, I was told that, if I answered some questions, I would be let go. I had my two bags with me and I was really thinking that I would get out.

A higher-ranking police officer took my file, looked at it and whispered something to the other officers. Instead of being let go, I was strip-searched. The two officers who did the search apologized, told me that it really was unwarranted and that they wanted to get it over with as quickly as possible.

I was then taken into another room and I asked once more if I was going to be able to see an investigator soon. They said yes, but, as I waited, I had to give them my shoes, my belt and my glasses. I was taken into another cage. There I really got worried.

In that cage, I saw detainees who were really panicked; we were told nothing. We did not know what was going to happen to us, we had not been read our rights. Theoretically, we had none. We were not given the right to a phone call or anything. I saw people scratching their arms with the end of a zap-strap in order to write a lawyer's telephone number. We were not yet at 16 hours, and things had come to that.

As a number of people have described, it was really cold in the cages at the temporary detention centre. It was so cold that we really thought we were going to go into hypothermia. Detainees had to huddle together to keep warm; after a while, there was no choice.

It seems to me that, if I had been a police officer, I would have taken the initiative to bring blankets or something—the budget was $1 billion, after all. We got a lot of homophobic comments from the police officers, both male and female. They laughed at us, because we were a bunch of guys huddled together.

A few hours later, three jumpsuits, the orange prison jumpsuits, arrived for seven people. So we had to take turns wearing them, but no one wanted to take my suit because I was so frozen.

In the morning, a rumour went round that the UN was coming to inspect the facility. Suddenly, the temperature went up. A police officer came to see us, we mentioned that the temperature was going up and he told us that they had shut off the air conditioning. He seemed to be mocking us a bit.

Afterwards, I kept asking every police officer who went by—and there were a lot—if I could see an investigator. I was never able to explain myself. When they came to get me, I was taken somewhere else to be fingerprinted. When I arrived in that room, there was a line of people waiting to have their fingerprints taken. I got the impression that it was a central booking area. I did not know if they intended to do a blacklist, but, at that point, I really would have liked to be able to explain to an investigator that I was no threat to anyone. Unfortunately, I never got that chance.

After that, I went off in a paddy wagon again, under the same conditions. You really feel claustrophobic in a paddy wagon, which is just a metal box. The trip to the cells at the court took a very long time again.

After being under arrest for 32 hours, I was finally able to speak to a lawyer. When I appeared in front of her and she saw the condition I was in, she started crying. When your lawyer starts crying, it is not a good day. Honestly, I did not know what was going to happen to me. I broke down in tears too; I was in a complete panic. We talked and I left.

The officers who took me back to my cell hurled a bunch of insults at me. They said that we Frenchies should have stayed at home. They accused me of being a member of the black block and told me that they had pictures to prove it, pictures of me smashing things. I told them I had had nothing to do with things like that, but they kept on all the same.

Around 9:00 p.m., I was finally able go before a judge. She looked at me and said that she had been working since the morning and that she wanted to go home to bed. She told us to come back the next morning. Then the person I was handcuffed to and I looked at her and said that we would be sleeping in a cell again. After that, we were put in a paddy wagon once more and taken to Maplehurst Prison. That had to have been another couple of hours, at least. It was very cold in the paddy wagon.

When we got to Maplehurst, I was strip-searched twice in an open cubicle, in full view of all my cellmates. They gave me a tuberculosis test, although I had refused. I said that I did not want anyone injecting me with anything. Anyway, I did not understand why I was being formally processed into the prison since I was supposed to go back to the court in the morning. So I refused the test, but they said that they would give me the injection by force if necessary. They also took my orange prison jumpsuit away. I started to get cold again, even though the temperature at Maplehurst was a little better. We had to sleep on a cement floor again. “Sleep” is the wrong word because we only had three hours and we had all been cold from the time we had been on our feet. I did not sleep, anyway.

My hearing was scheduled for 9:00 a.m the next morning. I was supposed to be back in court, but I got there around noon because there were not enough paddy wagons to take us. My lawyer was not able to find me in the prison cells all day. She tried everything she could. But I was there. How is it possible for the police to lose track of me? If they couldn't find me, shouldn't they have sounded the alarm because a prisoner was missing?

I went before the judge around 7:30 p.m. I was released under strict conditions, like having to leave Toronto within 24 hours. When I got back to my cell, one detainee had completely lost his mind. We had not slept for 55 hours. He did not know where he was and was completely disoriented. Nothing he said made sense. The rest of us tried to keep him calm by telling him that he was going to get out. But we were afraid for ourselves as well because we knew that we were close to cracking.

I got out around 11:00 p.m. when the paperwork was ready. The police forced me to sign a bail document. It contained errors, one of which was my address, though one of the conditions was to provide a correct address. They just said:

“Just sign the fucking paper or I will put you right back in jail”.

When I got out, I had no wallet, no money, no shoes, no glasses, no cellphone and no keys. I was in a city that I did not know. I could not read the street names. It was 12 degrees outside and I was in a T-shirt and pants that were falling down because I had no belt. I had 24 hours to leave Toronto and to get my personal effects that, supposedly, were 45 kilometres away.

If people had not come to get me that evening, I would have been arrested again.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

How much more do you have? We're well over 10 minutes now.

[Kevin Gagnon]

I need only two more minutes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Well, you've got one.

[Kevin Gagnon]

Okay. I'll do it fast.

If people had not come to get us, I am sure that I would have been arrested again. The next day, I got another little present from the city. My personal effects were not at the west detention centre as I had been told. They were lost.

I can tell you that 62 hours is like a long week at work, including overtime. I went through it all in one go and I was not able to sleep all that time. The conditions were appalling.

I am really upset that I was denied the presumption of innocence and that I was never able to meet with an investigator. I lost four months of my life, I lost a relationship. It affected my studies and it prevented me from working.

Now that it is all over, I demand that a public enquiry be held. Hundreds of people went through what I went through and I feel that it is important that they be heard.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you very much.

We'll now move to Chief Blair, please.

[Chief William Blair, Chief, Toronto Police Service]

Good afternoon, Chair and members of the committee.

Thank you for giving me the opportunity to come before you to speak today.

I am the Chief of the Toronto Police Service. The Toronto Police Service was a member of the integrated security team, which has already been articulated to you by Deputy Commissioner Beechey. I won't repeat his explanation about how that operated.

I have come before you today to give you the opportunity to ask me any questions with respect to the operational policing decisions that were made in the city of Toronto over the course of the entire G-8 and G-20 summits events.

During that time, responsibility for policing the city of Toronto was--and it remained--the responsibility of the Toronto Police Service in partnership with members of the integrated security unit. We saw ourselves as possessing three responsibilities.

The first responsibility was public safety: the safety of our citizens and the maintenance of public peace and the rule of law to prevent crime and to protect our citizens.

In addition, we also shared responsibility with our summit partners to protect the summit site, to facilitate the movement of internationally protected persons and other summit participants throughout the city, and to work generally to maintain the safety and the security of that site.

Finally, a very significant responsibility for the Toronto Police Service was the facilitation of lawful, peaceful protest. Over the course of the 10 days of the summit event, there were many protests that took place in Toronto that were lawful and peaceful. We were able to work with the people who had organized those events to maintain a peaceful environment so that people could come forward, express their political dissent, express their opinions, and exercise their democratic rights.

Unfortunately, as the week progressed, and on Friday evening in particular, we saw a greater threat emerging from within those lawful peaceful protests.

Mr. Chair, I have brought some images here today that I think may be of assistance to members of this committee. I know that you have heard testimony about and many references in the media and from others to the black bloc. With your permission, I thought it might be of value to you to see some images of the black bloc as it presented itself in Toronto.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you, Chief Blair.

Can you display the pictures and then explain what you have there?

[Chief William Blair]

Yes. I'll offer a brief explanation because I know that you want to get to your questions.

On Friday afternoon, there was a demonstration that left from Allan Gardens, which is located in the area of Carleton Street and Jarvis Street in the city of Toronto. It moved west across Carleton Street and College Street to the front of police headquarters. As that protest group moved across College Street, a group within this group donned black disguises, and there were others who were masking as well.

If you get a closer view of these pictures, you can see people masking. You can see how, in the larger protest--a protest of some 3,000 to 5,000 people--a group formed within that group and was donning disguises. From that group, a number of objects began to be thrown at my police officers. There was, frankly, a very real apprehension of a breach of the peace, and we had to bring in public order officers to maintain order.

On Friday afternoon we were successful in preventing this particular group from within the protest from launching a criminal attack on the city.

On Saturday, we were confronted with a greater challenge. On Saturday there was a protest that was organized primarily by the labour movement and the Ontario Federation of Labour and that exceeded approximately 10,000 protesters. They were very cooperative with us. They worked very collaboratively in helping us marshal and rally their event. As we moved around the city with that event, what emerged from within that group were several hundred individuals who obviously did not have the intent of engaging in lawful, peaceful protest, but rather had the intent of trying to penetrate the perimeter site of the summit and to engage in criminal behaviour.

With our public order officers, we prevented their penetration into the summit area, and unfortunately, they turned their criminal intent toward more vulnerable targets. They ran away from our police officers, who were positioned and deployed to protect the summit site, and they began to charge across Queen Street and up Yonge Street. I think you are all familiar with the images of members of that group who were smashing windows, burning cars, looting stores, and generally causing a great deal of mayhem through vandalism and violence in the city of Toronto.

We began to take the steps necessary to contain that threat. Over the course of that weekend, the criminal conspiracy to commit criminal acts did not end on Saturday afternoon, and it did not end when they left Yonge Street. It continued. We were gathering intelligence and information from within the crowd, and we had other sources of information that made it very clear to us that the criminal intent of the people involved in those criminal acts continued throughout the weekend.

Our ability to continue to police lawful, peaceful protests was, quite frankly, compromised by the actions of those who instead undertook the actions of a mob and engaged in criminal acts. Decisions were made by our operational commanders and by our major incident commanders that it was necessary to disperse those crowds to prevent a breach of the peace and, if the crowds refused to disperse, to take persons into preventive detention. And that did take place over the course of the weekend.

I want to tell you that since that event a number of reviews have been taking place that I think will be helpful for this committee to understand. First, on the Monday following the summit event, the Toronto Police Service announced that we would be undertaking and completing a Summit Management After Action Review Team report. That report is in its final stages of draft. When it is completed, it will be presented as is appropriate by me, through my civilian oversight body, our Police Services Board, in order to explain to my board--to which I'm accountable--the operational decisions and tactics deployed in that particular event and to provide information about them.

In addition, we have in Ontario a legislative process for the oversight of public complaints against the police. It is headed by the Independent Police Review Director, Mr. Gerry McNeilly. I understand that approximately 280 complaints have been received by Mr. McNeilly. They are being investigated by his office. He has also announced that under section 57 of our Police Services Act, he will be conducting a systemic review of the policing of the summit event. This is his legislated responsibility in Ontario.

In addition, our Ontario Human Rights Commission and the Human Rights Tribunal of Ontario are able to address any human rights complaints that are brought forward.

We also have a special investigative unit in Ontario that is an independent investigative body whose responsibility it is to conduct investigations in any matter in which a person experiences serious injury or death. Those investigations are conducted independent of the police. There were five such investigations being conducted by the special investigative unit and we are waiting the outcome of their reports.

My Police Services Board is fulfilling its responsibility and has announced that it is conducting a review of issues with respect to governance, communication, and police deployment. Over the course of the summit event, they have engaged with retired Justice John Morden in order to conduct this review. The Toronto Police Service is cooperating fully with Justice Morden and with all of the aforementioned reviews and investigations that I've mentioned.

In addition, the Province of Ontario has appointed retired Chief Justice Roy McMurtry to conduct a review of the Public Works Protection Act, a piece of provincial legislation that was relevant in the policing of the summit.

In addition, the Ontario ombudsman has announced the he is reviewing the process by which the Government of Ontario passed a regulation. Pursuant to the Public Works Protection Act, there are a number of civil processes currently under way, including class action lawsuits. Many of the complaints will be dealt with not only through the aforementioned processes but through our civil courts.

Finally, there are a significant number of criminal trials that are currently under way because of the work of Detective Sergeant Giroux and his team, which you'll hear about shortly. They have identified a significant number of people who were responsible for much of the criminality that occurred in the city of Toronto during the weekend of the G-20 summit.

I'll be happy to answer your questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you very much, Chief Blair.

We'll now move to Mr. Giroux.

[Det Sgt Gary Giroux, Detective Sergeant, Toronto Police G20 Investigative Team, Toronto Police Service]

Good afternoon. My name is Detective Sergeant Gary Giroux. I'm the operational case manager of the G-20 investigative project team that was formed on June 28, 2010, as a result of the criminality that took place within the downtown core of the city of Toronto.

The mandate of the project team is an offender-based criminal investigation with regard to the G-20 related criminality that took place within the city of Toronto on Saturday, June 26, 2010. All of the prosecutions are based on identification of the offender by still photographs and video or witness testimony.

To date, we've received 40,000 still photographs that were provided to the investigators by private citizens and by undercover police officers within the crowd to assist us in our investigation. We've received 500 videotapes that were taken by the public and were provided to us for our assistance. Citizens within the city of Toronto and the greater Toronto area provided statements to the police with regard to the criminality they witnessed while present at the G-20 demonstrations.

In addition, we have 22,000 hours of closed-circuit cameras that were positioned in the downtown area of the city, 22,000 hours of closed-circuit cameras that recorded the criminality that took place on that particular day. We had aerial support from planes and helicopters from a variety of policing agencies. We had surveillance cameras that were provided to us by private businesses and office towers in the downtown area.

Some of the offenders who committed these offences, including arsons, were wearing no disguises at the time of their offence.

Others--several hundred black bloc individuals who wore dark clothing and disguises--transitioned throughout the downtown core breaking windows. They clearly came to the city of Toronto with a clear agenda to damage property. These individuals are in addition responsible for assaulting citizens and police officers and burning and destroying a number of marked uniform police cars. The dollar value on June 26, 2010, is estimated to be in excess of $2 million.

As a result of the tremendous support from the public, the masked offenders were followed and tracked through the crowd until their disguises were removed--in essence, their “de-blocing” tactics. At that time, there were photographs. With the assistance of the media and the release of these photographs, those offenders have been identified, and a number of them are in custody.

The arrests that my project officers have made have taken place within the city of Toronto and the greater Toronto area and in numerous other parts of the province of Ontario, the province of Quebec, and the province of British Columbia. Some of the offenders were arrested prior to the violence that took place on June 26, but were arrested in other offences related to the G-20. At the time, the Toronto police already had their photographs for comparison purposes for the criminality that took place on Saturday, June 26.

To this date, there have been 37 arrests, many of them of black bloc offenders. There have been 131 criminal charges laid to this point, including arson, assault, mischief, mischief endangering life, and assaulting police officers. The majority of the offenders, during their interrogation and when confronted with the physical photographic evidence, go on to confess to my investigators with regard to the criminality that they participated in.

To this point, arrest warrants and extradition orders will be sought for three American citizens who participated in over $500,000 worth of damage. All three of them are members of the black bloc. Their offences total over 100 criminal charges. They're all American citizens. These offenders are all known and they will all be apprehended.

One of the offenders, who lives within the greater New York area, attacked the Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce while armed with a miner's pickaxe, striking windows 20 feet high, for a total damage of $385,000. The damage took less than 30 seconds to commit.

The Canadian Bankers Association has offered assistance with regard to facial recognition software. It will be instrumental in a number of the most serious offender prosecutions. These prosecutions have dedicated crown attorneys who have carriage of all of my G-20-related criminal prosecutions, and many of the crown attorneys will be seeking penitentiary sentences for these offenders.

Numerous offers of assistance from other policing agencies within Ontario, Canada, and the United States have been provided to my officers. Additional arrests are pending. The investigation is active and ongoing.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you very much, Mr. Giroux.

Indeed, thank you to all our guests for your opening statements.

We'll move to the first round with Mr. Holland for seven minutes, please.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses.

My questions will centre on the gap, if you will, that exists.

There's a number of processes, and Chief Blair, you've outlined a number of the processes that are looking into some of the matters the committee has been hearing about, but there is no federal review of the role of the federal government. In fact, the Toronto Police Services Board, through its chair and I believe also through resolution, has identified a number of gaps where they don't feel the questions have been answered with respect to federal responsibility.

The first thing I want to understand is how you were engaged. Then I'm going to move to trying to understand chain of command and how decisions were made.

On how you were engaged, when were you first notified that the G-20 would be coming to Toronto?

[Chief William Blair]

We had indications that a G-8 was going to take place several months prior to the event. We knew that if the G-8 took place anywhere in Ontario it was likely going to result in protests in the greater Toronto area. This has been the experience with other G-8 or G-20 events: the protestors tend to come to the large urban centre nearby. So we had some reasonable apprehension.

So we began when the announcement of the G-8 was made. I don't have a precise date, but I think it was probably about 18 months in advance--at least in the summer of 2009. We began working very closely with the RCMP, with the OPP, and with our other policing partners in preparation for that event.

I assigned, in November of 2009, a number of my senior personnel to act and to work as part of the planning team. We received some indication that a G-8 and G-20 might be held in Ontario. I don't have a precise date for you--I apologize, Mr. Holland--but I did receive a visit from Mr. Ward Elcock, who came and spoke about the possibility of holding a G-20 in Toronto and asked a number of questions about our logistic capacity to police such an event with our policing partners.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

Do you recall, generally speaking, when Mr. Elcock would have visited you?

[Chief William Blair]

Generally, sometime between November and January, and I can't provide you with a precise date today. I can determine that because it will be in my calendar, but I don't have it with me today.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

Perhaps you could follow up with the committee on that.

[Chief William Blair]

Certainly.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

So Mr. Elcock basically asked you a few logistical questions and then presumably went away. When was the next contact you had from the RCMP or from the federal government?

[Chief William Blair]

We were in constant contact and we were working very collaboratively with the RCMP, the OPP, and our other policing partners in preparation for a G-8 and, quite frankly, in anticipation of a G-20. At the first indication that a G-20 might take place in Toronto, we began planning for that eventuality.

You can un-plan those events if a decision is made to not hold them there, but there is a lot of work to do, quite frankly, to get ready for a security event of that magnitude. So we began our planning and some communication within our own city to explain to people what the impacts of such an event might be.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

Okay. I guess here's my question, because we heard from the mayor of Toronto that he learned that the G-20--and I'm talking specifically of the G-20 here--was going to be coming into Toronto literally moments before it was announced by the minister.

I guess what I'm trying to establish is that if the city of Toronto wasn't consulted around where the G-20 was going to happen and where it was going to be placed, how much was your office engaged in this? In other words, how much was it just told to you that “here it is, deal with it”, and how much was a negotiation? What I'm hearing you say is that the first you heard of it was maybe the January before the summit. That was the first that you had heard of the possibility--

[Chief William Blair]

We began planning for the possibility.

We were not part of the decision-making on where the event would take place. But once the decision was made on where the event was to take place, we became very engaged in planning for the security of the event at that location.