Evidence of meeting #5 for Special Committee on the Canadian Mission in Afghanistan in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was know.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
4:05 p.m.
NDP
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
Yes, I can pass that out, the paragraph I read into the record, too.
Can I ask you if you recognize the document?
4:05 p.m.
Advisor to the Former Commander of the Joint Task Force Afghanistan, As an Individual
I recognize this document. May I ask if this can go into the record, the whole document?
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
If I may, Chair, I would like to ask some questions about the document first.
4:10 p.m.
An hon. member
But we haven't seen it.
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
If you could stop the clock for a second, Chair.
Okay, then I'll carry on with my questions. If I can carry on with the questions, then we can return to the status of the document.
You recognize this document?
4:10 p.m.
Advisor to the Former Commander of the Joint Task Force Afghanistan, As an Individual
Yes, this is a transfer detainee document, which were given during the transfer to NDS.
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
What would you make of the last paragraph that I read into the record, which I'm sharing with the committee, where it says--I omitted the names there--that these people would be transferred to the NDS for further questioning?
What does that mean, they'd be transferred for further questioning?
4:10 p.m.
Advisor to the Former Commander of the Joint Task Force Afghanistan, As an Individual
I have probably translated more than 40 or 50 of these documents, and these documents are actually detainee transfer documents that were given to NDS during the transfers.
When I was translating this document, I always asked the tactical questioners, I said, “Here you say that it's for further questioning by NDS--they should be transferred for further questioning. Should I translate this as transferring for questioning or transferring for torture?” They would just laugh.
4:10 p.m.
Advisor to the Former Commander of the Joint Task Force Afghanistan, As an Individual
I was always asking, joking with them, because we were working in one room. I would say, “Should I translate this...?” Because they were subcontracting torture.
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
So you believed, because of your experience, that when a transfer was written into the NDS it meant they were trying to use the NDS for--
4:10 p.m.
Advisor to the Former Commander of the Joint Task Force Afghanistan, As an Individual
They were trying to use the NDS as subcontracting for torture.
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
In your experience, you said that you've translated more than 40 of these agreements?
4:10 p.m.
Advisor to the Former Commander of the Joint Task Force Afghanistan, As an Individual
Yes.
4:10 p.m.
NDP
4:10 p.m.
Advisor to the Former Commander of the Joint Task Force Afghanistan, As an Individual
I was translating it from English to Pashto. Before we transferred the detainees, a copy of the English and Pashto translation was given to NDS.
4:10 p.m.
NDP
4:10 p.m.
Advisor to the Former Commander of the Joint Task Force Afghanistan, As an Individual
And the English one, yes.
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
Would both of these documents be kept on file with the Canadian Forces, or were they--
4:10 p.m.
Advisor to the Former Commander of the Joint Task Force Afghanistan, As an Individual
Most certainly, because if NDS has it, then they should have it in their file as well.
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
You say that in this arrangement there were in this case--and I'm looking at the date of October 2007--six of these people who were interrogated by the Canadian Forces and then passed on to NDS.
You're saying that when it says at the end that the interview is concluded but they believe the detainees were deceptive and have better knowledge than they suggested they did, the idea here was to pass them on to the NDS to extract more information, because of the methods that NDS used?
4:10 p.m.
Advisor to the Former Commander of the Joint Task Force Afghanistan, As an Individual
The language is very simple here if you look at it. If they wanted to extract more information from them, if they were deceptive, they kept them longer and asked them questions until they were satisfied. If you can't get it out of them through a normal way, then you have to subcontract the torture. It's not the first time it has happened. We did it with Maher Arar. We subcontracted his torture. So why would anybody doubt that we did not do it with Afghans?
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
It was understood, then, when the detainees were being transferred to NDS that it was done for that purpose?
4:10 p.m.
Advisor to the Former Commander of the Joint Task Force Afghanistan, As an Individual
There was no one in the Canadian military with a uniform who was involved in any way, at any level, with the detainee transfers who did not know what was going on and what the NDS does to their detainees.
