Canada-China Relations Committee on March 20th, 2023

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

It's for both of you.

[Gloria Fung]

The Chinese language media have been playing a very important role in exerting influence over voters in our Canadian society. As I mentioned before, because of the language barrier, Chinese Canadian voters get their source of information mainly from the Chinese language media. However, the majority, I would say, of the free community newspapers are under either the direct or indirect control of the CCP, because I understand that they get funding from the Chinese embassy. Sometimes we would call that the “social stability maintenance fee”. They use it to control the narrative, the message, being sent out through these media.

The other is WeChat and social media platforms. I think it's about time for our government to not just pass a foreign influence registry but also to consider other measures to be taken to combat influence in other aspects, including the media, which is a very, very seriously infiltrated sector.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken Hardie]

Thank you, Mr. Ehsassi.

That's your time.

We'll go now to Mr. Chong for five minutes or less.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Thank you.

I would like to continue with Mr. Ehsassi's questioning about Chinese language media.

We've had such witnesses in front of this committee previously, even in the previous Parliament. Victor Ho, the former editor-in-chief of the Sing Tao Daily, has indicated a very similar view to Ms. Fung's here today, that a lot of Chinese language media in Canada has been co-opted by the PRC. It's also something that CSIS noted in its briefing and assessment to the Prime Minister in documents that it released to another committee of the House of Commons, the procedure and House affairs committee.

I want to ask you a question by highlighting an allegation that I heard in the fall of 2021 that I've looked up. I took note of it at the time. I want to know if you've heard of similar things going on in Chinese language media.

I heard allegations that hosts on a local radio station in Vancouver, AM 1320, were instructed not to interview a certain Conservative MP or even refer to or mention that Conservative MP's name on air. One host subsequently did interview this Conservative MP and was terminated. Another host simply mentioned this Conservative MP's name on air and had his broadcast hours reduced as a result. I found this to be a shocking allegation for a regulated broadcaster in Canada. I referred the matter to the appropriate authorities in the federal government.

I'm wondering if you have heard of similar kinds of examples of Chinese language media, particularly CRTC-regulated media that have public licences, having been co-opted by the PRC in such a way.

[Gloria Fung]

This kind of situation is not confined to the west coast. This is also happening on the east coast.

Radio stations, TV stations, have all been infiltrated, or from time to time the management staff will be summoned by the Chinese embassy for advice to them as to what they should report on, or whom they should avoid interviewing.

In 2019, there was instruction from the Chinese embassy advising lots of the Chinese-language media to reduce their coverage of Hong Kong-related news because there were too many supportive actions going on in Canada. I personally have been blacklisted by a Chinese language channel, Fairchild TV, here. One of the managers who has already left told their reporters and editors that I should not be interviewed by them.

It is a very concerning situation we are in because they either exercise self-censorship or they kowtow to the so-called “advice” from the Chinese embassy—maybe because they pay more attention to who pays for the ads, but that shouldn't be the case.

The CRTC has not done a good job either because many years ago the CRTC approved nine mainland Chinese TV station programs in Canada, allowing them to spread the communist ideology and pro-Beijing programs on Canadian soil, but we have never been allowed to have our Canadian program in China, so why should we continue to do so?

I think it's about time for us to evaluate all of these policies.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Chan, did you want to add anything to that?

[Henry Chan]

Yes.

There was actually another case that's widely known about in the community. It was a pro-democracy.... She had a program on that, I think, and at one of the Vancouver radio stations this announcer played a song that was pro-Hong Kong democracy. Subsequently her schedule was reduced to one day a week. I think that is a case we heard about and it's widely known in the community.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken Hardie]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chong.

I believe the Liberal side has asked all of the questions it wishes to, so in the time remaining we will give half of it to Mr. Trudel and the other half to Ms. McPherson.

[Denis Trudel, Bloc, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

How much time do I have, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken Hardie]

You will have two and a half minutes.

[Denis Trudel, Bloc, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Okay, two and a half minutes.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Fung, earlier, you talked about a very interesting subject, election interference. You say that you have been following what goes on at the municipal, provincial and federal levels.

In the House of Commons, as in the leading Canadian media, possible interference by China in the Canadian electoral process came as an electric shock. That was actually an important statement. You show how commonplace it is when you say you have been observing it for 30 years and you have seen others.

You seem to be saying that you know which municipal or provincial candidates have received assistance from China.

Can you tell us more about that?

[Gloria Fung]

Yes.

Even before I came to Canada—

Is the sound system not working?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken Hardie]

It's fine.

We can hear you well.

[Gloria Fung]

Okay.

Over the past few decades, I have witnessed the evolution of China's infiltration in elections. They have changed from a more reactive strategy to the current, very arrogant and active strategy of sending their own people to run for office, including some underground party members.

They have also broken a lot of Elections Canada rules and regulations, in order to provide donations from abroad. When we tracked down some of these donations a couple of years ago, before Elections Canada changed its rules and regulations, they came with decimal points. Why was that? It was because the donations were made in foreign currency. When transferred here, the amounts had decimal points. Apart from that, so-called volunteers—they were actually paid—were sent to help with their preferred candidates' election campaigns. I think some of the names have been disclosed recently, as part of the 11 MPs' names. They also got assistance from the embassy, through the United Front organization.

It is not confined to that. There are other tactics being deployed by the pro-Beijing camp and strong advocates who are very close to the Chinese embassy. I understand they have been using the “anti-Chinese racism” narrative to silence people who are critical of Beijing policies.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken Hardie]

Ms. Fung, we have to interrupt, now, to give the last two and a half minutes to Ms. McPherson.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Two and a half minutes is not very long, but thank you, Mr. Chair.

I also thank both witnesses.

As the last person asking questions, I will pass it back to both of you.

Ms. Fung, could you tell us the final message you'd like to give this committee on how Canada should deal with these police stations and with the foreign interference writ large in our elections? Could you give us a broad sense of that?

You have about a minute.

[Gloria Fung]

Canada has been under a very serious challenge from foreign interference. It's about time for our government, and all federal parties, to take this matter very seriously. What we need is immediate action to combat foreign interference instead of “forever” consultation. We cannot wait. Time is not on our side, particularly in terms of foreign interference in elections. We need to pass a foreign influence registry as soon as possible—hopefully, before the next election is called. We can then, at least, subject some of these agents and entities to sunlight, so our government, bureaucrats and elected members know exactly whom they are dealing with. It would also offer reference information for the RCMP to hold these people accountable.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Go ahead, Mr. Chan.

[Henry Chan]

In response to Mr. Trudel's earlier, question, when he asked me what's happening in Saskatchewan, one thing I want to put on record is that the Confucius Institute at the University of Saskatchewan is still there. I think a lot of people know that the Confucius Institute has been referenced by CSIS, the FBI and MI6 as a potential threat for espionage and academic espionage on campuses. That's what I want to say.

I also think, at the end of the day, that it goes back to my message from before: be proactive instead of reactive.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken Hardie]

Thanks very much to our two witnesses.

I would like to report something that was told to another committee by the acting commissioner of the RCMP: Apparently, acting on solid evidence, the RCMP put cruisers outside of these “police stations” in Vancouver and Toronto. That led to their being shut down. There was, in fact, some deviant work going on there.

We've also heard, especially from our two witnesses right now, many comments about things that are going on. The committee might value it if you were to follow up with written material naming names. We seem to be shooting at ghosts here, because there's an insinuation or a suggestion that this or that happened. It would be very useful to us to get some specifics, which we can turn over to the authorities, if necessary.

In any event, it is time to wrap it up for this evening.

I'd like to thank our two witnesses, our interpreters, technicians, analysts, our clerk and our staff who are here with us tonight. Thank you all for your time. It was a great session.

The meeting is adjourned.