Canadian Heritage Committee on Feb. 19th, 2019

[Tracey Herbert]

Yes, though, as a small organization your priorities reflect the funding that you have. I can say yes, we try to take the holistic approach but, for example, we have a mandate of heritage and we currently don't have any funding for heritage.

[Steven Blaney]

Okay. This $50 million, is it over a year or is it multi-year?

[Tracey Herbert]

It's for three years.

[Steven Blaney]

Okay.

I will turn to Ms. Ireland and Mr. Ireland.

How do you see that this policy, this law, could support in particular your initiative of the Oneida Sign Language? How would you see it materialize specifically?

[Marsha Ireland]

[Witness spoke in Oneida Sign Language, interpreted as follows:]

When we recognize indigenous sign languages, then we encourage language and culture, but when we also look at accessibility one of the issues that has been there, as Max, my husband, spoke to earlier, is that interpreters would come and not know the language. We have access but we don't really have access, it's this facade of it. If we start to roll it out, it's revitalizing sign languages within each tribe or each language within its own dialects and it would be throughout Turtle Island.

There are many people who are still suffering in that colonization state. When we're looking at our future, I don't want our future children to have to go through the same things that I've had to go through. I don't want them to be confused. I don't want them to feel a lack of identity or a loss of culture. I want them to feel strength and identity in their culture and language.

Thank you.

[Steven Blaney]

Thank you.

[Max Ireland]

On your earlier comment about language and culture, you have to have one to go with the other, in my opinion. I'm from the Haudenosaunee, as was mentioned earlier. In order to open the doors to our longhouse, words have to be said before we can even go in. If those words aren't said, those doors aren't opened.

[Steven Blaney]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dabrusin]

We are now going to Ms. Jolibois, please, for seven minutes.

[Georgina Jolibois, NDP, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

I want to validate our friends, Mr. and Mrs. Ireland.

Thank you for this opportunity. Thank you for reminding us that for the indigenous languages from first nations, Métis and Inuit across Canada—the big Canada that we live in—we have to do some work with those languages across Canada to make sure that they have.... You reminded me about the people even in my riding, the people from the Cree, the Michif and the Dene to the other people. It's really important, so I really appreciate your doing that.

From the B.C. perspective, thank you for providing that perspective. It's given me a sense of hope in terms of what B.C. is doing and the work and the suggestions, even the suggestion around the legislation we're talking about, to strengthen it, and I'm pleased that the government is open to strengthening it and looking at the funding. It's a good direction. Thank you.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Do you want me to keep going?

[Georgina Jolibois, NDP, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Yes.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I echo everyone's testimony by saying how fascinating this presentation was.

Mrs. Herbert, as I understand it, you find it problematic that amounts are not specified in the bill. You would like to be able to determine the importance that will be given to this bill and these measures. There is talk of opening an office for a commissioner and three directors, but until the approach of this office is clarified, it will be difficult to associate an amount with it. This leads me to say that we may be putting the cart before the horse.

Would you have liked to have seen more details on the type of actions that communities want to see happen in their communities? I apologize for being a spoilsport, but I have a feeling that this is a rush to introduce something before the next election.

[Tracey Herbert]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Those are good questions. We are working with the AFN on a structure for the budget, so I'm not too concerned about that. I think that piece is going to come together quite quickly.

What I'm concerned about is the legislation not saying that it's obliged to have that funding in it. Also, part of the idea of having the national organization is that the organization could come up with the plan for the distribution of the funding and how to support communities to have successful projects, and how to take a community development approach with training and for coming together and having a national conference. There are all kinds of fantastic things that organization could do and that really need to happen.

I really want the legislation to go forward. I would hope that we could make some amendments to strengthen it. Part of the idea is that it seems to me that currently all the decision-making about who gets funded and how much money there is rests with the minister and the commissioner, and in British Columbia that's really delegated to the First Peoples' Cultural Council.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Mr. Blaney mentioned this earlier; I would like to know what kind of actions this office could sanction and support. Couldn't we draw inspiration from your structure?

Tonight, it was your interventions on the bill that seemed to me to be the most concrete. I find that a relief. Heaven knows we have mistakes to correct. There are three principles of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission that we must apply. I believe we must be as efficient as possible.

Should we be inspired by the way your organization operates?

[Tracey Herbert]

The national organization and the office of the commissioner need to be separate.

What would be great to emulate from our model is to bring indigenous experts and technicians together, give them the opportunity to influence the type of programming that happens, and enable them to be the voice for the languages across Canada.

I do feel that our political organizations play a role in developing policy and legislation, and they've done really great work to get us this far. However, the implementation needs to stay with our indigenous experts from across Canada. There are many of them, and they are the most hard-working and committed people I know. I have never worked so many weekends in my life since I started in this job because of those people. They have been committed to working toward this their entire lifetime.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Even evenings like tonight.

[Tracey Herbert]

Yes, even evenings like you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dabrusin]

We will now move on to Mr. Breton.

[Pierre Breton, Liberal, Shefford, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I will share my time with Mr. Arseneault.

Mr. and Mrs. Ireland, thank you for your heartfelt testimony, which expressed a lot of passion from the heart. I was very touched by your testimony. Could you tell me how this bill affects you? There is, of course, a direct impact on Canada's indigenous languages.

Mrs. Ireland, could you give me your opinion first? Mr. Ireland could speak after that.

[Marsha Ireland]

[Witness spoke in Oneida Sign Language, interpreted as follows:]

We see in Canada it is a bilingual country, so there are opportunities for English and French everywhere. However, indigenous languages have been left on the sidelines and sign languages have been even further left behind.

This process is really about bridging relationships and allowing people to have their identity and strength within their own language, instead of looking to the majority who are speaking either English or French.

This has become quite a barrier for us, for sign languages and deaf indigenous people across the country. They are even further ignored or put on the sidelines and forgotten.

This really is about our country honouring the truth and reconciliation process and allowing us to have our identity and culture.

[Pierre Breton, Liberal, Shefford, QC]

Go ahead, Mr. Arseneault.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Thank you, dear colleague.

Mrs. Herbert, I am a francophone from New Brunswick, so I am of Acadian descent. The battle for languages and the identity of culture through language touches me very much. It is my reason to be, and I imagine it is the same for you.

We heard from some witnesses earlier. We talked about a lot of things two hours ago. There are at least 90 indigenous languages in Canada, and 75% of them are at risk.

The purpose of the bill before us is to support indigenous peoples in the reclamation, revitalization, maintenance and strengthening of their languages. You said earlier that you didn't think that clause 7 is strong enough because it talks about consultation.

I'm not going to have a legal debate with you. The first two sentences may not be strong enough, but the minister really insisted that the bill is based first and foremost on what the indigenous communities have argued. The primary purpose of the bill is to meet the needs of these communities, and not the other way around, meaning that it is not the government that imposes its vision.

Correct me if I'm wrong or if you disagree, but clause 7 states that the minister must consult the diverse communities. It states the following:

in order to meet the objective of providing adequate, sustainable and long-term funding for the reclamation, revitalization, maintenance and strengthening of Indigenous languages.

Doesn't this second part reassure you?

[Tracey Herbert]

The consult just isn't strong enough. I feel there's still no obligation to fund it. All they're saying in that clause is that they're going to talk to indigenous peoples about the funding and about what might be required.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

It says “in order to meet the objective of providing”. Well, okay. Maybe we disagree on that point.