Canadian Heritage Committee on Nov. 20th, 2020

[Carlon Big Snake]

Yes. My wife and I feel that we're really blessed in acquiring these buffalo. I've never done a count, but I would say that since September, when we acquired them, probably about a couple of hundred people have visited.

There's one visitor who everybody keeps commenting about on Facebook or Snap or whatever you call it. That's former prime minister Stephen Harper. He was a visitor here. He mentioned that he wanted to be here for 20 minutes to half an hour due to his schedule, but I have to say that he was here for two hours. He was curious about the significance of the white buffalo. We gave him the story, and I really appreciated that.

That's a start there, as it is with gentlemen such as you, Martin. The education is going to start here.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Thank you very much.

Folks, the clock shows that the hour is done. However, we did have a late start, so I'm going to allow one more question.

Mrs. Bessette, the floor is yours for five minutes.

[Lyne Bessette, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Thank you very much for your generosity, Mr. Chair.

My thanks to all the witnesses for joining us today and for taking the time to come to talk to us about this topic, difficult though it may be.

My first question goes to Mr. Big Snake.

Thank you for your personal testimony.

Can you tell us a little more about why you find this bill necessary?

[Carlon Big Snake]

As I said earlier, does any other holiday represent first nations? There's Family Day, Christmas Day. Christmas Day doesn't reflect our culture. It's about Jesus and so forth. We weren't part of Jesus. We don't call it God. We call it the Creator, and we believe in that.

I think we need to balance this. I think it's really important. I keep emphasizing the educational part. This holiday is a start. If it starts in 2022, that's fine, but I feel it's a message that's going to be sent. We need to start implementing these 94 calls to action, and I believe that's a positive start.

[Lyne Bessette, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Thank you very much.

I was obviously touched by the testimony. I was speaking with colleagues who were struck by the testimonies of indigenous and non-indigenous children who thought Orange Shirt Day was just a day when you put on an orange shirt. They need to know why. We have to go to the heart of this issue. We have to have a day on our calendar that says we have to pause and think about this.

I don't buy the money argument. People are going to get paid anyway. I think, let everybody pause. It's $11 million. Is it worth spending $11 million to commemorate this part of our history? Yes, absolutely.

[Carlon Big Snake]

Yes, I agree. I would rather take [Technical difficulty—Editor]. I don't know if it's spending. Call it an investment. That investment is going to create a lot of opportunity, and I truly believe that. Whether it be....

I don't know what to say here, but if we recognize that, I feel that all the people who were hurt through the history of what's happened to us have to come to the forefront. We have to quit hiding it and denying it.

It says “truth and reconciliation”. The lady, the doctor, mentioned it and said, “Yes, we need to talk about the truth.” Then we can reconcile after that. That's important to me.

Whether it's Orange Day or Orange Shirt Day, there's a lot of mishappenings to first nations. I think everybody needs to know that. I think we need to utilize that day to send that message out in a positive manner. I need to use what happened in the past, and the negativity about that, and turn that around and make it a positive for everyone. I truly believe that.

[Lyne Bessette, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Thank you very much.

My second question would be for Dr. Allison-Cassin

It will be in French, I am sorry.

You mentioned that the first stage in the process of truth and reconciliation is the “truth” part, and that we have to have difficult conversations so that we never forget the consequences of the past and so that history never repeats itself.

In your experience, what is the best way to have those difficult conversations with young people?

[Stacy Allison-Cassin]

Thank you for your question.

It's one of those “it depends” answers on how one carries out those conversations. I will say that I think it's important to have those conversations with small children as much as it is to have them with older people. Obviously, my story was about my daughter in grade 3. I know we have been talking about this in my family for some time. This is why I think education is important, but it's also important to educate the educators and to help those participating in education, whether it's teachers, librarians or other people in other areas—parents even—understand that even though these topics are hard, and it is hard to talk about....

I will say that when children are taught in school, as I think mine have been, that Canada is the best and Canada has all these wonderful things and you say, well, yes, but there are these parts of Canada that require work.... So it's allowing people to learn how to have hard conversations and not to not have them because they're uncomfortable or because you don't feel equipped to have them. I do think that is particularly important in thinking about ways that.... As Mr. Big Snake said, coming out to the territory, to the land, and seeing those places is also vitally important for having an understanding of what happened.

Again, it depends, but I think the biggest part is not not having them. That for me is one of the biggest things I would say. Having a national day does speak to the importance, to say, no, we can't not have these conversations.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

I'm sorry. I have to end it there. We're over time right now.

Thank you, Mrs. Bessette.

I want to say a special thank you to our three witnesses here.

Mr. Big Snake, I want to thank you. I think I speak on behalf of many when I say that you've widened our interest in white buffalo. That's really something. It's quite a story.

[Carlon Big Snake]

You're more than welcome.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

It was our pleasure. Thank you.

Dr. Allison-Cassin, thank you so much for your time.

Of course, Mr. Hynes, we also thank you.

Committee, we're going to suspend to set up for our next panel. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Welcome back, everybody.

We're now in our second hour of witnesses where we are discussing Bill C-5, An Act to amend the Bills of Exchange Act, the Interpretation Act and the Canada Labour Code (National Day for Truth and Reconciliation).

We have two witnesses for the second hour, and I want to thank them very much for joining us. They're joining us remotely. I will give you the opportunity in just a few moments to correct any mispronunciations, but in the meantime I want to welcome the national chief from the Dene Nation, Norman Yakeleya and also the Innu chief of Ekuanitshit, Jean-Charles Piétacho.

On behalf of everybody, thank you very much.

Both of you, of course, are under the umbrella of the Assembly of First Nations. The way we do this, with witnesses, is that you have up to five minutes for your opening statement. We provide some leeway to finish your sentences. Then we proceed with questioning after that.

We're going to start with Chief Yakeleya for five minutes, please.

[National Chief Norman Yakeleya, Dene Nation, Assembly of First Nations]

Marsi.

[Witness spoke in Dene]

[English]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

In my language, I said thank you to my relatives on this call, and today is good weather outside. It's beautiful outside.

Members of the committee, friends and relatives, thank you for inviting me here today to join in sharing the perspectives of the Assembly of First Nations on Bill C-5, an act that will result in a national day of truth and reconciliation as a national statutory holiday.

While I encourage the building of relationships based on understanding and respect every day, I'm here to support the bill advocating for the creation of a national holiday. Creating a national statutory holiday for indigenous people will assist in promoting reconciliation while also commemorating those who need commemoration. We must not forget the past harm done to our communities and the long-lasting legacy of the residential school system and the impact it has had on first nations and indigenous communities.

There will still be challenges to the relationship building between the first nations and Canadians. A national statutory holiday could provide an opportunity for learning, education, and coming together for a better understanding of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, its goals and aspirations, and how all of Canada can move forward on the path to reconciliation.

As indicated in the Truth and Reconciliation Commission's final report, the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples provides the framework for reconciliation. Article 15 of the declaration states:

1. Indigenous peoples have the right to the dignity and diversity of their cultures, traditions, histories and aspirations which shall be appropriately reflected in education and public information.

2. States shall take effective measures, in consultation and cooperation with the indigenous peoples concerned, to combat prejudice and eliminate discrimination and to promote tolerance, understanding and good relations among indigenous peoples and all other segments of society.

A national holiday could be used to combat prejudice, eliminate racism and promote tolerance. This holiday will serve as an annual act of reconciliation. First nations have welcomed many of the Canadians' recent commitments to promoting reconciliation, including supporting Bill C-262, the United Nations declaration act, and we look forward to continued initiatives that foster reconciliation. Several provinces and territories have already acknowledged the important day to celebrate the indigenous people.

In 2017, the Yukon government created legislation that led to June 21 becoming a statutory holiday. In the Northwest Territories, this date has been celebrated as a statutory territorial holiday for 18 years. This is not a new issue. The Assembly of First Nations has been calling for this legislation since 1982. The Royal Commission on Aboriginal Peoples recommended this special day, and the chiefs-in-assembly have several resolutions speaking to this matter specifically.

As a party to the Indian Residential School Settlement Agreement, which led to the creation of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, the AFN has a unique mandate in advocating the full implementation of all 94 calls to action. Among these calls to action is number 80, which calls for a national day in a very measured outline of this proposed bill.

I'm aware of Canada's recent commitment to declare a federal statutory holiday to mark the legacy of the residential school system. We welcome the announcement of a day to honour the history of this period, as called for by the TRC.

The AFN executive committee recently passed a motion to advocate that Orange Shirt Day on September 30 become a statutory holiday for reconciliation. This date is near the time of year when children were separated from their families to attend the residential schools. It was named after the shiny orange shirt that was given to a six-year-old Phyllis Webstad by her grandmother in 1973 and taken from her and never returned when she attended St. Joseph’s Mission school in Williams Lake, B.C.

I paused just now, because I reflected. That also happened to a lot of us in our residential schools in the Northwest Territories.

I'll conclude my statement.

The AFN proposes that this bill be amended so that September 30 becomes a statutory holiday for reconciliation and that June 21 remain a national day of celebration. If Canada chooses to fulfill call to action number 80 through this bill, June 21 must accomplish the important task of ensuring there's an opportunity for all to honour and respect the legacy of survivors while celebrating our culture and our history.

There is a concern over the conflicting tones of these two objectives. Reconciliation is never easy. It will take substantial effort from all of the partners, both public and private, to ensure reconciliation is encouraged and promoted. Sustained reconciliation takes more than just one day.

I urge all governments to ensure that they keep front and centre the interests and the perspectives of the survivors. First nations are committed to action and change. It is time to restore the original relationship of mutual respect, mutual recognition, peaceful coexistence and sharing. It is a time for reconciliation.

I want to thank the committee and MP Jolibois for raising this important issue.

In closing, the Dene Nation, along with the Assembly of First Nations, wants to ensure that we walk together in these footsteps so that our children can truly have a place in society as first nations people.

We thank you. We thank our elders. God bless you. God bless our people who are in the Labrador country. We pray for you all.

We look forward to your questions.

Marsi cho.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Thank you, Chief Yakeleya.

Chief Piétacho is next.

You have the floor for five minutes.

[Chief Jean-Charles Piétacho, Innu Chief of Ekuanithit, Assembly of First Nations Quebec-Labrador]

Normally, I would talk for a day, but I will restrain myself and take only five minutes. The fact remains that this is a very important moment in our lives.

My name is Jean-Charles Piétacho. My family name is actually not like the Oblates wrote it back in the day. In Innu, my name means "he who comes with the wind”. I have been chief of the Innu community of Ekuanithit for 30 years. I have been elected for many years.

Before I forget, I would like to highlight an important event that involves one of our legendary figures. I am talking about Grand Chief Max Gros-Louis, who has left us and was laid to rest yesterday. Vigils were held for three days, around the clock. They were powerful moments. I was present for the beginning of the ritual and I went to pay my respects to the family, both personally and as chief.

Let me start by telling you that I am a former residential school student. I will say “wave” because that's often the word used these days. I am one of the second wave of kids who were abducted, put in trucks, and taken to the airport on an old American base. Then we were put into planes. We were very young and we were having fun, until the evening when we realized that we were no longer at home.

I am trying to imagine and describe, as quickly as possible, what that was like. You should do the same. We were no longer at home. I don't know how many kids from the Innu community of Ekuanithit left that day. My grandfather and grandmother raised me. I imagined my grandfather and grandmother crushed because they could no longer hear me speak. They could no longer hear me cry. I knew that there would be no more communication because I was no longer there.

I was at the residential school for a long time. Some of us went to live in the school to the west of our community of Maliotenam. We stayed there one year, three years, seven years, 10 years. Some never came back. Times like those are what we are now trying to have people understand.

I am trying to not make this speech about victimization anymore, but I want all Canadians to remember, and never to forget, that tragic period for our families and for ourselves. It happened during the 1950s and 1960s. There were a lot of children. When we got to the residential school, they took off all our clothes and cut our hair. We understood not a word of what people were saying to us.

I want to tell you something I have said before: this is not about money. My wife and I were not entitled to the amounts that all former residential school students received. My wife comes from Sept-Îles. Her case was considered inadmissible because her school was described as a day school. We are following what is happening in British Columbia with day schools very closely. They are in court at the moment, and our thoughts are with them.

For administrative reasons, I was denied the amount that should have come to me. However, what hurts me most is the sexual abuse. That does hurt. Sometimes I have difficulty, because it comes back to me. Certainly, it is good to decide to hold a day of commemoration and acknowledgement. However, for some, including myself, it brings back painful memories.

Today, I am a chief and I have had to watch other children being abducted. I've seen young children leave as a result of an order issued by an external legal body. In the present case, it is the director of youth protection who once again has decided that those kids will go somewhere other than into our families. That is too much for me; I must not fail to react.

We are in the process of handling things ourselves, although Quebec is challenging Bill C-92. Despite the lack of funding, the bill would have allowed us to come up with our own solutions. We will get there anyway, with nothing. We have succeeded in placing our own children in families in our communities. That is my greatest concern.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Sorry, if you have a concluding remark, that would be great. We have to move on to questions really soon.

Thank you.

[Chief Jean-Charles Piétacho]

Let me be sincere and transparent when I tell you that I hope that the national day for truth and reconciliation will not just be for public servants, because that may end up as a holiday that we, in our already underfunded communities, will have to pay for. That said, it's good that there should be a day like September 30.

Finally, the situation is difficult at the moment. Recently, on September 28, a young Atikamekw woman died tragically. She succeeded in making a video of it before she died. The systemic racism that currently prevails in that region of Québec is being denied. I hope that you will understand the concerns we have.

I wanted to talk to you from my heart. I could have read you a text, but I prefer to speak with my heart, because I would not want my children, my grandchildren and my great-grandchildren to live through what I lived through. I will never be able to accept that.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Thank you, Mr. Piétacho.

Now let's get to the questions. We're going to start with the first round of six minutes each.

We'll start with Mr. Aitchison, please.

[Scott Aitchison, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

For my first question, I would like both gentlemen to respond, if they could.

What I'm concerned about here more than anything else is that we will establish the day off for federally regulated industries and employees and we won't grow in our understanding. I say that because of my own experience. Before Prime Minister Harper apologized for the residential school system in this country, I didn't know about it. I'm not a particularly unengaged human being. I was involved in municipal council in my home for 26 years. I didn't know about it.

I have to tell you, Chief Piétacho, that when I hear the stories, they are so compelling, so powerful and so moving that they motivate me to do more and to educate more to help people understand what we really did to first nations people in this land.

I wonder if you would comment on whether, instead of just a holiday that gives a bunch of federal employees and federally regulated industries a day off, you would be interested in the notion of having the national day for truth and reconciliation include education, understanding and personal growth for people to understand what we have done to first nations people and culture in this land.

[Chief Jean-Charles Piétacho]

Certainly, it should be more than a holiday. If we go on like this, adding days here and there, the calendar is going to be filled up with days like Remembrance Day or June 24. Quebec is going to have a day on September 28, to commemorate the tragic death of Joyce Echaquan. There is no doubt that it will take more education, information and awareness, so that people do not forget.

As I told you, this is not a speech about victimization. I am here to remind you about the events we have lived through in the hope that this day can bring a glimmer of hope that we want to pass on in order to avoid a repetition of what we have always lived through, and the shame of being what we were made to be in the residential schools. Some died and were never able to tell their stories.

The government and the judges are saying that all the testimony of the former residential school students must be erased at a specific time, maybe in five or seven years. That concerns me, because it means erasing a large part, if not all, of a history that the world should know about.

I find that the day of commemoration is very important. It is being done with the orange shirts, you know. On September 28, we will have a day for Joyce and, on September 30, a day for former residential school students.

I don't know if having too many dates will end up making the thing meaningless. My fear is that the day will be used for financial considerations. I'm afraid that public servants will say that they will work from their cottages on that day instead of educating themselves. That's my concern. However, it's a fine initiative that the AFNQL supports, notwithstanding certain concerns that I have mentioned to you today.

[Scott Aitchison, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

I'm wondering if Norman would also comment.

[National Chief Norman Yakeleya]

Thank you very much, parliamentary committee members.

Mr. Chair, the gentleman has asked a very important question, and I think he has a very important point, that just for the sake of having a national holiday....

I believe that the Assembly of First Nations would want this to be a very meaningful way for all of Canada, including indigenous people, to really understand the impacts of the residential schools and the other policies that had effects on their lives personally and their communities. The history of this—that as aboriginal people we were subjected to these types of policies—needs to be told in a careful, gentle, healing way. There were a lot of things that were forbidden to us to speak about and to even know about them in the education of history in our schools and institutions. It should be for families to know that a nation of people was subjected to these policies in the Indian Act and under the residential schools and many other policies and legislation, and to know that the first time the aboriginal people were recognized was in 1960, when they were allowed to vote in the Canadian system.

It would be fruitful to have the Assembly of First Nations, along with other people, come together as a task team and to make this a meaningful way. We need to have this discussion with our Canadian brothers and sisters and have the history. Just like we commemorate November 11, when we all put aside our differences and honour the people who fought for us, who gave us this freedom and sacrificed their lives, we are doing this with the residential schools. Our parents gave up their children to the schools and the churches, and they sacrificed, and the impact is very devastating, but we are a forgiving nation, and we want the Canadian people to understand that, as aboriginal people, this is what really happened to us.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Thank you, Chief Yakeleya. I have to end it right there. We'll go on to the next question.

Ms. Dabrusin, you have six minutes.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Chef Piétacho, I see two things that have come from the answers to our questions: will it be a statutory holiday or not, and what are we going to do with the day?

In terms of the first part, I am thinking about call for action number 80 that asks for a statutory holiday. What do you think?

Is it important whether it's a statutory holiday or just another day? You mentioned that a number of days could be established in our calendar.

[Chief Jean-Charles Piétacho]

I've read so many reports since the Royal Commission on Aboriginal Peoples, and there have been so many recommendations and calls to action, whether from the Truth and Reconciliation Commission or the Viens commission in Quebec. Let me tell you what is unfortunate. Many people have gone to testify. Some of my elders, who are now gone, have done so in the hope of gestures from governments.

Today, I have been doing what I do here for over 30 years, which is to speak out in different forums, whether in my community or on a regional, national or international level. We've been to the United Nations many times. We worked on the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, which is still being discussed.

My fear is that it will be just another day, like June 21. We're making every effort possible. For sure, with COVID-19 at the moment there can't be much movement, but the past teaches us things. In fact, we're so resilient, perhaps too resilient. We really need to use the word “action” if it means anything. I like to talk, but I'd also like to see action. It's not enough to pass a bill, pat ourselves on the back and do nothing afterwards.