Canadian Heritage Committee on April 14th, 2026

[Murray Wood]

There's no question. It's the challenge that all media are facing.

As I said in my presentation, our biggest competition now isn't the TV station across the street anymore. It's Google, LinkedIn and YouTube.

I liked the idea presented by, I think, Ms. Simard. If there were attached credits to local advertisers to buy local ads, it sounds like the sort of thing that could be done fairly quickly and easily without having to gather funds together and redistribute them and so forth. It could be a very straightforward transactional tax issue. I thought that was worth exploration.

[David Myles, Liberal, Fredericton—Oromocto, NB]

Very well, thank you.

As for you, from Télé Inter-Rives, thank you for being here in northern New Brunswick. I'm really glad you're here. I imagine it's not always easy, but I appreciate it.

[Cindy Simard]

I've had an opening in Caraquet for eight months now, if you're interested.

[David Myles, Liberal, Fredericton—Oromocto, NB]

Excellent.

[Pierre Harvey]

I'd also like to answer your question, which is very relevant. In fact, there are several answers to this question, but I'll share the perspective of someone who's been observing the local television and media industry for about fifty years. I joined CHAU–TV in 1977, when I was 18, and I've witnessed the entire evolution of the industry over the past few decades. I've seen the challenges that have arisen. We've always overcome them. The arrival not only of social media but also of the Internet has sparked interest among conservatives and citizens alike. It has changed the world. It has influenced many activities around us and many businesses, particularly the media.

As for television, we're dealing with several factors. Our primary goal in the coming years is to diversify our revenue streams. We currently have a starting point: we have the Google Fund, we have the ILNF. As we mentioned earlier, without the ILNF, we wouldn't have been able to survive. We remain in the advertising business. The economic climate is tougher, and there is fierce competition from social media, but we continue to sell advertising. Our problem is a revenue problem, not a viewership problem.

Once again, in the television sector, the impact is significant. I could tell you about the show Indéfendable, which attracts an average of 1,500,000 viewers in Quebec from Monday to Thursday. In my area, it reaches 40,000 people. Across eastern Quebec, we're talking about a viewership of roughly 150,000 people out of a potential audience of 500,000. So, you can see just how effective television still is with the public.

You can see it every evening if you go for a walk through the streets of Carleton-sur-Mer. I live in a small town. It's easy to see the glow from the TV on the wall, and it's in every house. So it's not true that people watch less TV these days. Maybe a little less than before, because they spend some time on platforms like YouTube, but television's reach is still considerable.

So, it's going to be small steps like that which will diversify our revenue streams. I've been in this business for 50 years, and I still believe in the future of television. We still have many good years ahead of us, but we mustn't give up on television. If we give up on it overnight, it will never come back. No one will want to reinvest in television stations in eastern Quebec if they disappear.

There's one more thing I'd like to mention. You'll recall that for several years now, the private television industry in Canada has been calling for Radio-Canada to withdraw from the advertising market. We've been discussing this within our company, and very recently, we put forward a somewhat bolder proposal. If Radio-Canada were to withdraw from advertising overnight, half of its revenue would likely go straight to the web giants, right away. So, it's still the industry that will lose this revenue for producing programs, delivering news, and so on. From our perspective, the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation is the system's spoiled child. It has considerable resources to fulfill its mission to Canadians. We believe it can afford to transfer a portion of that to the private television industry. So, what we're proposing is that Radio-Canada remain in the advertising business and continue to generate revenue, but that it set aside a percentage of its advertising revenue to be transferred to the private television industry.

That's another major catch: We're affiliated with television networks. Without the TVA network, we won't survive. So, if the TVA network shuts down tomorrow morning—and it's currently facing significant financial difficulties—we won't survive.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lisa Hepfner]

Thank you, sir.

We now have Alexis Deschênes in the room.

I believe you're a former journalist as well. So we're well represented here on the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage.

You have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Alexis Deschênes, Bloc, Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I'm a former journalist, yes, and my first report aired on CHAU TVA in the nineties. Several years before that, my father had worked for CHAU TVA. So I have a personal interest in this story, but it's much more than that. As a journalist and now as an elected official, I've seen how important regional media are. They make it possible to have a democratic conversation that's not hijacked by GAFAM and algorithms.

Today, I'm very pleased you're here, Mr. Harvey and Ms. Simard. I understand the issue very well: Your source of revenue from the Independent Local News Fund has been cut in half since last year.

Tell us what will happen if the Liberal government doesn't react and lets things go.

[Pierre Harvey]

We say it very clearly in our brief: If the ILNF is not renewed, if it gets eliminated, or if the money that was cut doesn't come back, some stations will close down. That's really the situation we're in. The ILNF provides around $2 million per year for our three TV stations.

[Alexis Deschênes, Bloc, Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC]

Should we be worried about CHAU and CIMT?

[Cindy Simard]

I think we have to worry about Télé Inter‑Rives and RNC Media, the only two independent broadcasters in Quebec. Honestly, those businesses would literally shut down. That would mean that a diversity of voices would simply cease to be and that would make room for public broadcasting and other small media. That said, I think we do play an essential role in the community.

[Alexis Deschênes, Bloc, Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC]

One thing we don't often say is that, under the Quebec Charter of Human Rights and Freedoms, everyone has the right to information. Another thing you explained very well is that not only are people entitled to information, they need information. I can attest to the ratings at CHAU. When CHAU airs a news report on the Gaspésie or the Îles de la Madeleine, it resonates.

So the solution you're proposing, and we support you on it, is to have the government offer compensation for its approach, which may have been balanced at the outset, but which, given the GAFAM lawsuit, is no longer balanced. So you're proposing that the government give you transitional measures to increase your funding, at least temporarily.

[Pierre Harvey]

Absolutely. We're asking for temporary funding until the situation before the courts caused by the foreign companies is resolved. If it gets resolved, so much the better. However, if it isn't, it will be possible to appeal, which could lead to further delays, then the repayable loan will really be very important for us to be able to continue.

Then, there's another issue looming right now: The U.S. government is putting a sine qua non condition on the Online Streaming Act for resuming negotiations around the Canada—United States—Mexico Agreement, on the same basis as supply management. When we hear that, it scares us. So, if that happens and the Canadian government strategically says that it won't go any further in the case of foreign online broadcasting platforms, the government should have a plan B to fully offset the CRTC estimates for the new ILNF.

[Alexis Deschênes, Bloc, Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lisa Hepfner]

Thank you.

Mr. Généreux, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Côte-du-Sud—Rivière-du-Loup—Kataskomiq—Témiscouata, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses.

Once again, Ms. Simard, you brought up a number of interesting ideas earlier. You talked a lot about training. I see that and I saw it in you. In fact, Mr. Deschênes just talked about it. Young journalists coming out of school often don't have the experience needed to go and work at Radio-Canada or major stations, so they start their careers at smaller stations in the regions.

You mentioned a potential training tax credit. What do you think that kind of tax credit would look like? How could it make it possible not only to train journalists, but also to retain them in the long term?

I think there is competition. You talked about that earlier. Radio-Canada pays up to twice the salary you offer. Obviously, it's subsidized to the tune of $1.4 billion, so it has means that a private company like yours doesn't have.

What do you suggest, in addition to the training tax credit? Would there also be follow-up after training?

[Cindy Simard]

We've seen that in some programs. For example, it could simply be that the government pays 25% of the journalist in training's salary, and they would be required to stay in the same region for a year or two. We've seen this in other programs, such as the one for physicians. The person could be required to work in the region for at least a year or two after their training. That's the kind of thing that could be done.

I'd say that journalists and students are told to go learn the ropes in the regions. No urban station will hire an untrained journalist. So we really take them at the outset. They have no experience. They send in their CVs. I have a specific example of someone who will be leaving us in two weeks for a position at Radio-Canada in Trois-Rivières. He sent his CV to Radio-Canada a year ago and never heard back. Now he's been trained for a year, and he's able to work as a journalist, do live work, interviews, editing, all of it, and now Radio-Canada is interested in him. It's getting hard.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Côte-du-Sud—Rivière-du-Loup—Kataskomiq—Témiscouata, QC]

There's another element that you alluded to. I think you gave five. Actually, the chair asked you if it would be possible to elaborate on those ideas a little more in writing and send them to us.

[Cindy Simard]

I'd be happy to do that.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Côte-du-Sud—Rivière-du-Loup—Kataskomiq—Témiscouata, QC]

Did I understand correctly that print newspapers already have a tax credit that you don't have access to in radio and television? I think that Mr. Champoux talked about this earlier. Now we have a Liberal majority government in front of us. I therefore invite you to speak to all Liberal members across Quebec and to put pressure on them so we get a response more quickly. I urge you to do the same thing when it comes to the ILNF. The ball is now in their court. It's up to them to respond quickly.

We talked about emergency measures with Mr. Ranger earlier. However, the report we're going to make here won't be tabled in the House of Commons until the fall. Therefore, I think your industry should put even more pressure on the government to try to resolve this issue quickly.

[Cindy Simard]

Absolutely.

We used to talk about business models with different companies. I am a big believer in fairness, and I think that committee work should perhaps talk about fairness right off the bat or at some point. I think that's the problem, somewhat. We don't have subscription revenue either. We generalists offer our services free of charge. We have no subscription revenue. That was another big debate we had and lost in court. I think it went to the Supreme Court. We don't have subscription revenue. We don't have subsidies. So just being in a fair business model would already mean a lot for us.

With respect to the tax credit, as you know, the provincial government has just decided to expand it to allow electronic media to use it. I sincerely believe that the federal government should do the same thing, and right away. It wouldn't be hard to give us this tax credit that print media have been entitled to for a number of years. We face the same challenges and problems they do, and I dare add that we have the heavy burden of television news production, which is harder because we have to travel and we need equipment. We don't do our stuff in a TV studio; we go out in the field. It takes vehicles, it takes gas, it takes cameras. There's a huge burden on television journalism that doesn't exist for other media. That doesn't take anything away from what others do, but I think that element alone warrants us being eligible for programs like the journalism tax credit.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Côte-du-Sud—Rivière-du-Loup—Kataskomiq—Témiscouata, QC]

What would it mean for you, for example, to have a federal journalism tax credit, a bit like the one you've just been granted in Quebec? How much money could that represent? Would it be tens of thousands of dollars or hundreds of thousands of dollars?

[Cindy Simard]

For the federal tax credit, we did a rough calculation, and it would be several thousand dollars.

[Pierre Harvey]

It would be at least $350,000.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lisa Hepfner]

Thank you.

I will now give the floor to Mr. Myles for five minutes.

[David Myles, Liberal, Fredericton—Oromocto, NB]

Thank you very much.

Some questions that come to my mind when we're talking about the media landscape in the country and the importance of local information speak to why the public broadcaster is talking about being in the regions and making sure it is broadening the scope, not just being in the cities. I think what we've been talking about is important, in terms of its not being a competitive force against the businesses that are....

Maybe we can dig into that a bit. The intention of expanding into the regions is important for the sake of all the reasons we've been talking about. Having viable, strong journalism throughout the country is important, particularly given all the challenges to the business model.

How do we see this in terms of working together as effectively as possible?

Ms. Simard, I feel like you had two other ideas too when we were talking about business models. Therefore, perhaps we can start the conversation there, because you already have some ideas.